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Author 	Topic: Part III: Being the Difference Between Players &

Gamemasters  (Read 1163 times)

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*Part III: Being the Difference Between Players & Gamemasters

<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=1080.msg10124#msg10124>*

« * on:* December 27, 2001, 02:10:00 PM »

------------------------------------------------------------------------

December 30th, 2001 -

At the behest of my friends here on the Forge, I will present

Scattershot at the point I have it.  Even though this is a

work-in-progress, I am not trying to present a diary of the progress.

 Expect the lead component of this thread to undergo changes as

Scattershot does.  This edition was originally put together on Thursday,

December 27th, 2001.  This series of articles will detail strictly the

mechanics of Scattershot, articles relating to the techniques of 'how to

play' will have to wait until I have more of them centralized and

organized.  The third major component of the game, the setting and genre

material is will be addressed once I get a new batch of playtesters.

In this installment, I am going to discuss how Scattershot initially

treats the difference between gamemasters and players.  This is not

because the differences are important to stress, but in the light of how

much overlap there /can/ be, the difference exposes some of the latitude

that the game mechanic must address.  One of the primary concerns of

Scattershot is to treat gamemaster and player alike, because their roles

will blur more and more as people get beyond this traditional model.

Once again this latitude allows people who play Scattershot to 'find

their own level,' either by trial and error or by informed choice

(hopefully the technique section of Scattershot can help there).

 Ultimately this is about finding a balance between the extremes.  Here

are some of the more important extremes as demostrated by the

differences between how Scattershot affords players and gamemasters in

the 'thumbnail of gaming' chapter.

Character Creation:

      In keeping with the 'emotional attachment' that is a result of a

      more detailed character creation system (as described in both the

      first regular installment of the [SCATTERSHOT:] articles

      <http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?topic=1073&forum=2&1>

      and this article

      <http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?topic=457&forum=4>),

      players create characters /for themselves/.[/list:u]

            Gamemasters, on the other hand, mostly create characters

            /for everyone's/ collective enjoyment.[/list:u]Play:

                  Because it makes little sense to have a game that is

                  not /for/ the players (being the bulk of the

                  participants) and in keeping with the sharing

                  principal

                  <http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?topic=1073&forum=2&1>

                  I explained earlier, players must obviously drive play

                  forward.  While events in the game should not wait for

                  player character action, the game /should/ obligate

                  the player characters to some kind of action.  (Who

                  wants to play inertia?)[/list:u]

                        In the antipode, gamemasters must therefore do

                        what they can to facilitate play.  This is one

                        of the main reasons they traditionally create

                        characters, for the facilitation of

                        play.[/list:u]'Flow of Play' issues, like

                        pacing, scale, and scope:

                              Players /can/ affect these.[/list:u]

                                    Gamemasters /must/ according to

                                    tradition.[/list:u]Using the

                                    mechanics during play:

                                          Players can invoke them

                                          whenever they feel a need for

                                          them.[/list:u]

                                                Gamemasters are then

                                                expected to arbitrate.

                                                 Because of the

                                                impartiality issues I

                                                described earlier

                                                <http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?topic=1073&forum=2&1>,

                                                it is important for

                                                gamemasters to only

                                                arbitrate in a fashion

                                                that is 'fair' but also

                                                open under these

                                                mechanics.  For this

                                                reason Scattershot is

                                                designed (counter to the

                                                traditional model) to

                                                allow anyone to

                                                arbitrate, not just the

                                                gamemaster.[/list:u]I

                                                guess on some level this

                                                describes mechanics as

                                                the tool of the player

                                                which is then the

                                                responsibility of the

                                                gamemaster.  In most

                                                traditional instances I

                                                know, in the application

                                                of the mechanics, the

                                                gamemaster mostly only

                                                responds to these (and

                                                is the only respondant);

                                                this is an unfortunate

                                                balance (that we feel

                                                needs to be changed).

                                                 Scattershot's mechanics

                                                are meant to be a tool

                                                for everyone and should

                                                allow anyone to

                                                arbitrate, because of

                                                the overlap in all

                                                roles.  However,

                                                ultimately, when an

                                                irreconcilable

                                                inter-participant

                                                conflict exists within

                                                the playing group, only

                                                then does Scattershot

                                                have the gamemaster be

                                                the final arbiter.

                                                Next up, where and when

                                                are mechanics used or

                                                needed.

                                                Fang Langford

	Logged

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fang Langford is formerly the creator of the Scattershot Role-Playing

Game System.  This project has been permanently suspended.  If you have

any questions regarding the implementation of it or anything else, he

can be reached at ripjack@mad.scientist.com

<mailto:ripjack@mad.scientist.com>

*Ron Edwards

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<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=1080.msg10128#msg10128>

*Part III: Being the Difference Between Players & Gamemasters

<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=1080.msg10128#msg10128>*

« *Reply #1 on:* December 27, 2001, 02:26:00 PM »

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey,

It's a tough issue, Fang, not the least because it seems as if

/everyone/ carries a load of unspoken assumptions about GM/player

responsibilities and privileges, and very few are willing to air those

assumptions, except in dysfunctional ways.

My writing of Sorcerer ('89 in the barest beginning stages; '94-96 in

the nuts & bolts stages, '96-98 for the playtesting stages) shows

horrible scar tissue and baseball-type stitches about this issue. There

are still patches of prose that I didn't catch prior to book-printing,

in which the term "GM" should really be replaced with "the group," or

"GM decides" should really be replaced with "the player decides." I

assumed up until the mid-late 90s that a GM was also the guiding

ideologue of the group, and now I think differently.

Since Scattershot has Transition as a design goal (I like that term so

much that I'm gonna keep it!), do you see GM and player

roles/responsibilities as a labile feature of the game? Or do you think

there's a way to set those things up in a stable way that still permits

a variety of Transitional outcomes?

Best,

Ron

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*Part III: Being the Difference Between Players & Gamemasters

<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=1080.msg10140#msg10140>*

« *Reply #2 on:* December 27, 2001, 03:26:00 PM »

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote

Because it makes little sense to have a game that is not for the players

(being the bulk of the participants) and in keeping with the sharing

principal I explained earlier, players must obviously drive play

forward. While events in the game should not wait for player character

action, the game should obligate the player characters to some kind of

action. (Who wants to play inertia?)

Amen, brother!

Quote

In the antipode, gamemasters must therefore do what they can to

facilitate play.

Thank you thank you thank you for using the word "facilitate". As Ron

has heard me rant many a time, I also think the GM's primary role is

that of facilitator. (For example, in narrativist play, the GM is not

the "storyteller". S/he is the facilitator of the players being

"storytellers".) (Side note: I think this extends to other areas as

well. I think a teacher's role is to facilitate students educating

themselves, a librarian's role is to facilitate patrons finding

information, an artist's role is to facilitate everybody creating art,

ad nauseum.)

I think the whole "what the hell is a GM" question is a topic worthy of

a lot of thought. Do all RPGs /have/ to have a GM? What about everybody

being a GM? What does a GM do, anyway? These are all good questions.

You've got some good stuff here so far, Fang.

	Logged

------------------------------------------------------------------------

--josh

"You can't ignore a rain of toads!"--Mike Holmes

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*Part III: Being the Difference Between Players & Gamemasters

<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=1080.msg10158#msg10158>*

« *Reply #3 on:* December 27, 2001, 09:45:00 PM »

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote

Ron Edwards wrote:

It's a tough issue, Fang, not the least because it seems as if

/everyone/ carries a load of unspoken assumptions about GM/player

responsibilities and privileges, and very few are willing to air those

assumptions, except in dysfunctional ways.

That's why I thought it needed to be spelled out concretely.  Another of

Scattershot's design objectives was that, while being organized for

beginners to grasp, it had to also have a thing or two to tell

experienced gamers.  I thought one of the best things I could do was to

at least provide explicit roles for gamemasters and players up front,

with some discussion on how these both overlap and can have their

responsibilities shifted to the other party.  This provides grist for

the experienced gamer mill to grind out some new understandings for

themselves.  (The trick will be to not 'talk under' or 'talk over'

anyone's heads, simultaneously.)

Quote

...or "GM decides" should really be replaced with "the player decides."

I assumed up until the mid-late 90s that a GM was also the guiding

ideologue of the group, and now I think differently.

Agreed.  I also think that ultimate decisions should be held to a group

decision because of the aforementioned 'sharing principal.'  I put the

gamemaster up as final authority because, 1 is an odd number (which

avoids deadlocks), and a single person often acts faster than a

committee when it comes to tough decisions (preserving 'flow of play' as

I mentioned over in the earlier article

<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?topic=1073&forum=2>).

Quote

Since Scattershot has Transition as a design goal (I like that term so

much that I'm gonna keep it!), do you see GM and player

roles/responsibilities as a labile feature of the game? Or do you think

there's a way to set those things up in a stable way that still permits

a variety of Transitional outcomes?

I believe I have already mentioned that one of Scattershot's design

specifications is that it is meant to be 'familiar' to experienced

gamers (though I cannot find the reference).  This means we /must/ use

terms like hit points, gamemaster, and so on.  In our case that also

means we give the terms 'gamemaster' and 'player' and the descriptions

above /as a starting point/.  I would have gone into the details of the

techniques that allow Transition away from traditional models for these

'roles at the table,' but I only posted this as underpinning for

upcoming installments (as I said, these show the /extremes/ that can be

had).

And yes, I do think there is a "stable way" to set these up.  If you

remember back to when I posted Scattershot's chapter layout

<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?topic=673&forum=2>, you

can see that the basic premise of what players and gamemasters are is

layed out quite early.  When the text comes back to these issues, a

reader will be expected to have a handle on how these work in the

traditional sense.  Based on that, in terms of describing the

techniques, we can work from /there/ (but only if we are /very careful/

how we depict these roles in the first place).

Fang Langford

[ This Message was edited by: Le Joueur on 2001-12-28 00:47 ]

	Logged

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fang Langford is formerly the creator of the Scattershot Role-Playing

Game System.  This project has been permanently suspended.  If you have

any questions regarding the implementation of it or anything else, he

can be reached at ripjack@mad.scientist.com

<mailto:ripjack@mad.scientist.com>

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*Part III: Being the Difference Between Players & Gamemasters

<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=1080.msg10161#msg10161>*

« *Reply #4 on:* December 27, 2001, 10:41:00 PM »

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote

joshua neff wrote:

Quote

Fang wrote:

Gamemasters must therefore do what they can to facilitate play.

Thank you for using the word "facilitate". I also think the GM's primary

role is that of facilitator. [Snip.]

I think the whole "what the hell is a GM" question is a topic worthy of

a lot of thought. Do all RPGs /have/ to have a GM? What about everybody

being a GM? What does a GM do, anyway? These are all good questions.

Role-playing games, in my opinion, certainly do not need gamemasters.

 In fact, I tend to think of gamemasterless play as an unreachable

ideal.  On a practical level, there are a number of things a gamemaster

is most ideally suited to handling (at least when no one else is

interested).  Aside from the relative ease their role makes for them to

portray the hundreds of extras that populate a game, I think I rather

clearly designated the remainder of their traditional duties back in

this article

<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?topic=993&forum=14> about

Scattershot's live-action techniques.

Simply listed, they were: referee of /player/ disputes, the game's

originator (or at least the codifier), facilitator of play (keeping up

the 'flow of play,' steering relevance, and et cetera), facilities

arrangement (though this is most often delegated, if the gamemaster, in

all these other roles, does not make it, the game doesn't happen), and

finally handling 'membership' (surprise characters can be very

disruptive, running against facilitation).

There is one role 'hidden' within being the 'facilitator of play;' that

is being the 'head' of the game.  In large corporations (and in the US

government for that matter), at some point there is a sole individual

who is charged with orchestrating the actions of the unit whole (most

often outwardly).  This serves how the group survives as its own entity.

Now I am not talking about a dictatorship here; rare is the company

where the CEO makes changes that take the whole by surprise, but even

though advised and 'checked and balanced' there is nothing that beats

the efficacy and quick reactions (when needed) of a single individual.

The number one, main reason I gave this topic its own article is because

I have to agree that it does require a good deal of discussion, and I

for one, did not want the totality of Scattershot's mechanics to hide

this potential for discussion.

Quote

You've got some good stuff here so far, Fang.

Thank you, I appreciate the input.  The number two reason I segregated

this topic was that I am not convinced that I have the whole of it yet.

 I look forward to what becomes of each of the component articles in the

[SCATTERSHOT:] series.

Fang Langford

	Logged

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fang Langford is formerly the creator of the Scattershot Role-Playing

Game System.  This project has been permanently suspended.  If you have

any questions regarding the implementation of it or anything else, he

can be reached at ripjack@mad.scientist.com

<mailto:ripjack@mad.scientist.com>

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*Part III: Being the Difference Between Players & Gamemasters

<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=1080.msg10177#msg10177>*

« *Reply #5 on:* December 28, 2001, 07:04:00 AM »

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fang--

While my gaming preferences remain solidly in the "one GM for a group of

players" realm, I'm entirely unconvinced that there needs to be one GM

to guide them all (*ahem*). I think GM-less play (which is really

"everyone-is-a-GM" play) is a completely feasible option, & one which

shouldn't be discounted. I sometimes think the idea that "there needs to

be a GM" is a basic mistrust in decision-making-by-consensus, a holdover

from playing in dysfunctional gaming groups. Lord knows,I've been in

enough gaming groups in which /somebody/ had to exert some sort of

authority. But I've also been in groups in which consensus was the rule,

not the exception.

I would love to see more RPGs which promoted & facilitated something

other than the "one GM" concept. (& despite my own preferences, I'd love

to play more "everyone's a GM" games.)

	Logged

------------------------------------------------------------------------

--josh

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*Part III: Being the Difference Between Players & Gamemasters

<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=1080.msg10209#msg10209>*

« *Reply #6 on:* December 28, 2001, 09:43:00 AM »

------------------------------------------------------------------------