| author | fabien |
| Wed, 30 Aug 2006 21:32:44 -0400 | |
| branch | ecjdr |
| changeset 92 | bdef1afd1170 |
| permissions | -rw-r--r-- |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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+ *The Forge <http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php>* |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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|-+ *General Forge Forums <http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php#1>* |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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| |-+ *GNS Model Discussion <http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?board=3.0>* |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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| | |-+ *The whole model - this is it <http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.0>* |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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*Pages:* [*1*] 2 3 * ... *5 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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Author Topic: The whole model - this is it (Read 13307 times) |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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*Ron Edwards |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9>* |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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Global Moderator |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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Member |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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* |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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Posts: 12610 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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View Profile |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9> WWW |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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<http://www.sorcerer-rpg.com> |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.msg90112#msg90112> |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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*The whole model - this is it |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.msg90112#msg90112>* |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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« * on:* November 11, 2003, 03:49:15 PM » |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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Hello, |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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All the following material is supplemental to the existing essays, but |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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it also overrules them as well as any of my previous comments in forum |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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discussions at any point of contradiction. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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In other words, all of the following is the straight dope as of this |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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writing. If a particular term or concept isn't mentioned here, then the |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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pre-existing material stands; ask about it if that material isn't clear |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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to you. If I haven't defined a term (and I define very few here), that |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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means that the current definition is intended to stand. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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My plan is to hammer out any necessary hassles about this material in |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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this thread, and then rewrite the whole damn thing in "nice and |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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friendly" prose, which as far as I know is pretty much the first time |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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that will have been done. For a sample of the tone/logic I'll be using, |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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see *GNS - what is it? <http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=5860>*. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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THE MODEL ITSELF |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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*[Social Contract]* |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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Social Contract encompasses everything about role-playing, because it is |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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the sum of all interactions among the people involved. If these people |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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happen to be role-playing together, then Social Contract crucially |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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includes "Let's play this game." This crucial element is what's further |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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subdivided throughout the rest of this model. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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*[Social Contract [Exploration]]* |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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The above two terms do not constitute a dichotomy. Exploration |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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("imagined stuff," "shared imagined space"), as previously defined in my
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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essays, is an expression or application of that particular group's |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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Social Contract. One cannot say "That's just social" when discussing |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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some aspect of play, nor can one write off Social Contract as "just |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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being polite" with actual play being something else. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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Exploration is usually described as merely a list of Character, Setting, |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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Situation, System, and Color. But it does have more internal/imaginary |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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structure: Character + Setting make Situation, System permits Situation |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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to "move," and Color affects all the others. This concept applies only |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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to the imaginary causes among the elements, by the way; the actual |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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effort, priority, or cause among these things, in social/creative terms, |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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varies widely. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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*[Social Contract [Exploration [Creative Agenda]]]* |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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Creative Agenda is the blanket term for any and all GNS modes or |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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priorities of play. The Venn diagram is supposed to indicate that any |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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Creative Agenda is an expression or application of Exploration among the |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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real-people group. Since Exploration necessarily includes System, that |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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means, as soon as we start talking about Creative Agenda, "play has begun." |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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On paper, I draw this terms as an arrow, labelled GNS or Creative |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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Agenda. This arrow is very important - this "step" or "level" in my |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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model shifts out of the abstract and solidly into this group, playing |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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this game, this way, at this time. The model instantly ceases to be a |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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broad overview or comparative panoply, and starts to be a diagnostic or |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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description of a real play-experience among real people. Unless you are |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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thinking of such a case, you will be left flailing at this point in the |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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discussion. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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For purposes of explaining the overall model, I'm profoundly |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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uninterested in discusing the nuances, internal relationships, |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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definitions, or anything else about the internal content of Creative |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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Agenda. All I care about, at this point, is that people recognize that |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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role-playing requires such a thing to exist. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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*[Social Contract [Exploration [Creative Agenda --> [Techniques]]]]* |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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To understand this part, again, recognize that Creative Agenda and the |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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arrow symbol are supposed to be the same thing, not two things. That |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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means that we are talking about some actual play. The panoply of |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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Techniques being employed in that instance, over time, either satisfy or |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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fail to satisfy one or more Creative Agendas. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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It's not too off-the-wall to think of Techniques as being a direct |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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106 |
expression of the more abstract concept of System (way up in |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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107 |
Exploration), except that System doesn't exist all by itself - it's |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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108 |
fully integrated with all the other components of Exploration. But if |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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109 |
you keep that in mind, then yes, the arrow represented by Creative |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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110 |
Agenda can indeed be "shot" from the bow of System. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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111 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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112 |
Techniques include IIEE, Drama/Karma/Fortune, search time & handling |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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113 |
time, narration apportioning, reward system, points of contact, |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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114 |
character components (Effectiveness, Metagame, Resource), scene framing, |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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115 |
currency among the character components, and much more. Each of these |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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116 |
terms represents a /range/ of potential play-methods. I consider the two |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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117 |
most important Techniques to be reward system and IIEE. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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118 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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119 |
*[Social Contract [Exploration [Creative Agenda --> [Techniques |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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120 |
[Ephemera]]]]]* |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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121 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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122 |
Ephemera is a new term, indicating the smallest-scale interactions and |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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123 |
activities of role-playing: anything that gets factored into or is |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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124 |
expressed by play in the space of a few seconds. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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125 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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126 |
Although fleeting, Ephemera are emphatically not trivial. As with every |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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127 |
level/box so far, fairly extensive combinations of Ephemera express or |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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128 |
apply one or more Techniques. They are the internal anatomy, if you |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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129 |
will, of Techniques and hence (conceptualizing upward) of System. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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130 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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131 |
Ephemera include individual Stances, in-character vs. out-of-character |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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132 |
diction and dialogue, referring to texts, sound effects, taking or |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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133 |
referring to notes, kibitzing, laughing, praise or disapproval, specific |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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134 |
dice or other system-based outcome interpretations, showing pictures, |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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135 |
and anything similar. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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136 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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137 |
*Clarification* |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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138 |
Some related topics are out of the scope of this discussion. I'm happy |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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139 |
to discuss them in other threads /if/ the person is completely able to |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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140 |
demonstrate understanding of the material presented so far. However, |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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141 |
none of them are going to occupy a whole lot of my emotional attention, |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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142 |
at least not until the Narrativism essay is done. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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143 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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144 |
- The relationship of S to N and/or G, or any other nuances of GNS |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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145 |
definitions or combinations within the [Creative Agenda] level. With any |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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146 |
luck, all three essays will do a good job of at least making /myself/ |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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147 |
clear about this stuff. Whether that will mean a damn thing in terms of |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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148 |
resolving anything for anyone else, I can't say. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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149 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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150 |
- Incoherence and/or dysfunctional play based on GNS incompatibilities. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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151 |
This one will be a big deal for some, but I suspect it's a matter of |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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152 |
defensiveness in many cases: "You say it's incoherent but we have fun!" |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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153 |
To which I can only reply, "Sounds coherent to me," or, "I suspect your |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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154 |
'fun' isn't as 'fun' as you think, for everyone." I've been saddened by |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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155 |
how often the latter response has proved accurate in the long run. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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156 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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157 |
- Commerce of any kind, especially in terms of "success." This |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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158 |
discussion, unfortunately, will have to await a much broader |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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159 |
understanding of game marketing and commerce than I think is the case, |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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160 |
currently. Recent threads at the Forge reinforce my impression about this. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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161 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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162 |
Instead of going into stuff like the above, this thread is devoted to |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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163 |
clarifying any aspect of the Big Picture as presented here, especially |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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164 |
inter-relations among the levels, and how they are to be assessed and |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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165 |
discussed. I'd especially like to talk about combinations of Ephemera |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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166 |
relative to one or more Techniques, and combinations of Techniques |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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167 |
relative to one or more categories within Creative Agenda. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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168 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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169 |
DESIGN, RULES, AND TEXTS |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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170 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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171 |
Design, when all is said and done, means authorship of a rules text. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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172 |
"Rules" aren't part of the model any more. As I now see it, rules texts |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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173 |
are not and can never be "role-playing," but rather are recommendations |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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174 |
regarding the model, if you will, in hopes (shared by the readers) that |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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175 |
people who read it can get that version of the model into action. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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176 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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177 |
Therefore the goal of design, it seems to me, is to make sense to the |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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178 |
reader in terms of the whole model. It's like a musical instrument, or |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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179 |
several of them, as well as instructions for how to play them, and |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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180 |
finally some music or chords to work with. Seems easy? Well, here are |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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181 |
the usual problems I see with role-playing texts, now that I have this |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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182 |
"model" thing setting next to me as I type. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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183 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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184 |
Problem 1 = Simply leaving whole levels out, assuming that readers |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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185 |
already know and agree exactly where you're coming from for those |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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186 |
levels. It's conceivable that, for instance, a panoply of Techniques are |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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187 |
simply so powerful in reinforcing some subset of Creative Agenda that |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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188 |
stating the latter would be redundant, but as far as I can tell, most |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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189 |
rules-sets aren't that lucky. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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190 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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191 |
Problem 2 = Problematic combinations of Techniques which lead to |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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192 |
confusion about Creative Agenda, which in turn means a whole lot of |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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193 |
local construction about "why we play." If you want to call this |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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194 |
"incoherence," you can - it's what I originally meant by the term, which |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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195 |
I'm considering retiring from use. And although I stand by my point that |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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196 |
this issue usually is a genuine problem for role-players, don't get me |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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197 |
started on early Champions or Amber, both of which turned out to benefit |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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198 |
greatly from the very same phenomenon. Whole 'nother essays, waiting to |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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199 |
happen. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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200 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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201 |
Problem 3 = Plain bad system design, which is to say, unsatisfying at |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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202 |
the group level for any particular Creative Agenda. If a given |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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203 |
rules-loop allows an "automatic win" in Gamist play, if it jars the |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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204 |
Dream inconsistently with other features of the game, if it locks down |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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205 |
Premise too tightly ... any of these "break" a game relative to a given |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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206 |
goal of play. Such games tend to be instantly discarded or instantly |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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207 |
repaired, often covertly (people insist that the "right" way to play |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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208 |
just happens not to be textual). |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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209 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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Problem 4 = Nonsensical prose, which might accompany perfectly good |
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rules. This is far more common than is good for any hobby, I think. It's |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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often associated with Creative Agenda issues, but also with many aspects |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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of character creation. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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214 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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Here's also what I see when looking at each level of the model and |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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thinking about rules texts. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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217 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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Social Contract and rules: This is where all those "What is |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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Role-playing" sections fall flat on their face. Just to pick the most |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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glaring example, I'm here to say that role-playing is not, and never |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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was, "cops and robbers with dice to resolve disputes." Going by the |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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model, people roll dice (or whatever) because they /agree/ about the |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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imagined events, not because they /disagree/. It might be interesting to |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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see whether anyone could write an introduction to a role-playing game |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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that really did specify Social Contract issues in a way which set up all |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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the following material in the game. Everway, perhaps? Universalis? |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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227 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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Creative Agenda and rules: Most role-playing texts are emphatically |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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silent about Creative Agendas, especially in the model's context that |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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it's an expression of imaginative Social Contract. Often, especially |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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when Gamist priorities seem to be invoked, one can parse out the GNS |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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recommendation by looking at key words and phrasing ("When your
|
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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character dies, you have lost the game."). The more emphatic |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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Simulationist texts (Arrowflight) are often clearer, but whenever the |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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term "story" gets thrown around in a vague, "You know, the /story/" way, |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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I think the text becomes dramatically less helpful. I'm very impressed |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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with the introduction in the Marvel Universe RPG, which provides an |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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amazing textbook piece on the differences between Gamist ("The Brawl")
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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and Narrativist ("With great power comes great responsibility") play,
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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emphasizing that a group does well to decide which they would prefer to |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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do when playing the game. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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242 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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Techniques and rules: Here's the most solid correspondence; I don't |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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think it's difficult to see how most rules are in fact instructions for |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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Techniques. The problem is that, according to the model, Techniques |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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alone do not a role-playing game make. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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247 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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Ephemera and rules: Here's another tricky one - as with Creative Agenda, |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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you have to find key phrases or little snippets scattered around the |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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text in order to see whether any Ephemera are being explained or (more |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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likely) assumed to be already standard for the role-players. The most |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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explicit example I can think of are the frequent exhortations toward |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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Actor Stance in so many games, as well as the implicit content of a "GM |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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only" section. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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255 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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256 |
DISCUSSING THE MODEL |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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257 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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I am listing some of the issues that people bring to discussing the |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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model here at the forums and elsewhere, and including some points of |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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interaction with the inherent stumbling blocks. The stumbling blocks |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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usually arrive from people employing one or more of these approaches: |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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262 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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a) reaching understanding through paraphrasing and correction, |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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264 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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b) denying understanding as a means of defending oneself from a |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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perceived threat, |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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267 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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c) desperately trying to present one's own developed notions of some |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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kind, and |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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270 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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d) arguing in order to fit in, a common behavior among members of a |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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somewhat socially stunted subculture. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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273 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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Role-players often arrive at the Forge in an advanced state of |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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frustration regarding either play, talking about play, or both. Since |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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there's no way to control (or on my part anyway, no /desire/ to control) |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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what people want when they arrive, I think it's important for everyone |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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to consider all of the following points about discussing the model. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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279 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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*Point #1:* Nearly everyone who first encounters the theory is |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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predisposed to discuss Ephemera. They are also emotionally tied to |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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282 |
various Ephemera, especially those combinations which reinforce certain |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
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283 |
Techniques, and it's hard to get people to let go of that commitment |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
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284 |
long enough to look at the variety available. They are often convinced |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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that even looking at alternatives will destroy the entirety of whatever |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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play-profile (real or idealized) that they currently hold in highest esteem. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
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287 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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/Required point of discussion:/ Get them up to Techniques, which is what |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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289 |
they really want to discuss. The key is to validate the Techniques |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
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290 |
they're trying to reinforce, and to acknowledge to the person that they |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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291 |
are, indeed, making sense in these terms. After that point, the |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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292 |
diversity of Ephemera can be discussed without the person going into |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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293 |
protective-mode regarding what Techniques they prefer or are used to. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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294 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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295 |
*Point #2 (related to #1):* People may also take a Reductionist approach |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
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296 |
to trying to understand the model, which is to say, they would like the |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
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297 |
"particles" of (say) Stance to be themselves little chunks of GNS, and |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
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298 |
GNS as described simply to be collections of these chunks. This is not |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
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299 |
the case. Instead, for every box in the model, a category or type of |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
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300 |
"outer box" is always expressed/applied as a /combination/ of |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
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301 |
terms/categories within the inner box. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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302 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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/Required point of discussion:/ It's best to speak of combinations |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
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304 |
within an "inner" box in terms of how it affects or is affected by its |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
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"outer" box or boxes. Resist the extreme temptation to identify any one |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
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306 |
Technique, for instance, with a particular GNS category, or any one |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
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Ephemera-type event with a particular Technique. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
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308 |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
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309 |
*Point #3:* Creative Agenda is the "verb" of the model. As a generalized |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
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topic, without an actual group or any role-playing to discuss, GNS |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
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priorities are incredibly vague and abstract, to the point of being |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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312 |
uninteresting. |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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313 |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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In application, however, they are extremely concrete and easy to |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
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recognize. As I wrote in a recent thread, |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
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|
316 |
|
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
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|
317 |
Quote |
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[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
318 |
The only variables that really make sense, in discussing GNS, are the |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
319 |
social interactions and communications that go on among the real people |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
320 |
at the table, during play. |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
321 |
|
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
322 |
What is reinforced among them? Who praises whom, for doing what, and how |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
323 |
often? When is a stated or proposed action disallowed, often in very |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
324 |
subtle form? What gets everyone listening with undivided attention to a |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
325 |
single person's announcements? When do people laugh? When do they not |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
326 |
laugh, or socially squelch someone else's amusement? |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
327 |
|
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
328 |
All of those things, and more, are the only valid variables for |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
329 |
assessing a GNS profile for a given instance of play. (And by |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
330 |
"instance," I mean a lot of play, at least a session, probably more.) |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
331 |
|
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
332 |
I wish I'd made this point earlier. It's a big deal. The definitions of |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
333 |
GNS are not the same variables one uses to assess GNS in action. Since |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
334 |
GNS is a subset of Social Contract - indeed, it's the application of |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
335 |
Social Contract to the imagined material ("Exploration") - its identity
|
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
336 |
for that group can only be assessed in social terms. |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
337 |
|
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
338 |
|
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
339 |
Furthermore, in application, a given Creative Agenda category is also |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
340 |
extremely diverse in terms of possible Techniques, which is what my |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
341 |
current three essays (two down, one to go) are mainly about. M.J. Young |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
342 |
made a very good point recently when he said that within-Agenda |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
343 |
categories (e.g. specific types of Gamism, etc) lead to more rancor and |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
344 |
"not-us" distinctions among people discussing role-playing than |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
345 |
among-Agenda categories, in most cases. Or to put it differently, people |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
346 |
are highly committed not to "Gamism" but rather to "Gamism our way." Or |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
347 |
to put it in terms of my essays, within-category synecdoche seems to be |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
348 |
an extremely heartfelt, hotly-defended problem. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
349 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
350 |
/Required point of discussion:/ Don't get sidetracked into definitional |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
351 |
descriptions when discussing actual play. If a person really is |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
352 |
interested in examining the Creative Agenda(s) of his or her |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
353 |
role-playing, or more accurately that of his or her group, then focus on |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
354 |
social interactions, the real-people approval and disapproval during |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
355 |
play itself, as quoted above. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
356 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
357 |
*Point #4 (related to #3:* Creative Agenda is the most troublesome level |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
358 |
of the model for people to discuss, because many folks would very, very |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
359 |
much like Techniques to construct a satisfying GNS-profile for them, |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
360 |
without explicit reference to Social Contract. To link [Social Contract |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
361 |
[Exploration]] /causally downward/ into [Techniques], emphasizing |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
362 |
personal responsibility ("You get what you play for"), is frightening
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
363 |
and unwanted. They want what they want without wanting (a) to say so or |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
364 |
(b) actually to do that thing. Or if they are getting what they want, |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
365 |
it's often through Social Contract manipulation and they don't want to |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
366 |
endanger their carefully-constructed power-play. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
367 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
368 |
Here's the biggie: people have often come to idealize "rules" or "lack |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
369 |
of rules," whichever, in order to cement into play the Techniques that |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
370 |
they are used to or that they think will get them what they want. This |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
371 |
is the source of Rules and/or Setting Fetishim, as well as the source of |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
372 |
System Doesn't Matter. It's also the source of the /failure/ of both |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
373 |
tactics, neither of which stand up well in the long term. Cries of "it's |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
374 |
just a game" or "I just play to have fun" are signs of these tactics in |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
375 |
a state of final breakdown. Excessive arguing about details of GNS-stuff |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
376 |
is sometimes a defense mechanism. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
377 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
378 |
/Required point of discussion/: Stress Creative Agenda as the absolutely |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
379 |
necessary bridge from "we all like Star Trek" (Exploration) to "this is |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
380 |
how we role-play Star Trek" (Techniques). And just as importantly, be |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
381 |
prepared for the possibility that the person may /not/ be coming from |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
382 |
the position described in this point, and may well be perfectly comfy |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
383 |
with the concept of Creative Agenda once they get it properly explained |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
384 |
in terms of the levels of the model. So over-defensiveness on your part |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
385 |
should be acknowledged as a potential problem too. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
386 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
387 |
*Point #5:* Techniques express and satisfy Creative Agenda, whether |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
388 |
unsuccessfully or successfully. However, the relation between these |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
389 |
levels is not a tautology. You cannot discuss some abstract "real |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
390 |
Simulationism," for instance, in terms of Techniques which define it, |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
391 |
and especially not in terms of whatever the imaginary characters did to |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
392 |
or with whomever they fictionally encountered. Instead, you must |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
393 |
investigate whether X Techniques as applied and socially reinforced in Y |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
394 |
role-playing group are coalescing around (e.g.) a Simulationist |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
395 |
aesthetic. This is related to Point #3 in that applying Creative Agenda |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
396 |
is highly specific to a group of people: their personalities and |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
397 |
interactions, and their habits of play. But my current point is that |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
398 |
Techniques don't "compose" a Creative Agenda in a definitional way. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
399 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
400 |
/Required point of discussion/: Details of Creative Agenda may not be |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
401 |
the necessary point of discussion anyway; it might just be a matter of |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
402 |
letting the person know you get where they're coming from. For point #4, |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
403 |
getting GNS into the light is crucial. For this point, however, you just |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
404 |
might need to acknowledge that the Techniques being described, by this |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
405 |
person, do nail the GNS priority he or she prefers. It's very similar to |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
406 |
the "wants-Techniques, talks-Ephemera" issue mentioned for Point #1. In |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
407 |
this case, it's "wants-GNS, talks-Techniques." Again, the point of |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
408 |
discussion relies on acknowledging the person's valid combination so |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
409 |
they know they are being heard. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
410 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
411 |
Also, a person who's confounded over this issue probably needs to hear |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
412 |
that Creative Agenda categories (GNS) are not principles to live up to, |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
413 |
but rather just a vocabulary that helps describe the whole-model profile |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
414 |
for that particular group (or rather, an instance of that group's play |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
415 |
in action). |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
416 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
417 |
*Point #6:* Rules, Techniques, and System are now carefully |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
418 |
distinguished from one another in the model. System is a fairly abstract |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
419 |
term that indicates that the imagined Situation and other elements |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
420 |
actually change through the activity of role-playing. As a term, I |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
421 |
suggest thinking of it as "/a/ or /any/ system" rather than "/the/ |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
422 |
system." Techniques are extremely concrete and observable methods of |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
423 |
actual play. Rules are textual guides or instructions about any aspect |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
424 |
of role-playing at any level of the model. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
425 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
426 |
/Required point of discussion:/ It's going to take some work to help |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
427 |
people understand that "rules" are not part of the model at all. People |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
428 |
usually say "rules" when they mean Techniques or System. Instead, they |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
429 |
are texts, used to greater or lesser extent as a way to establish any |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
430 |
aspects of the model that the group wants to be established. This is the |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
431 |
Lumpley Principle in action. Discussion of the Principle got a little |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
432 |
wonky when I was working out "rules" vs. "system," but now I think it's |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
433 |
nailed. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
434 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
435 |
*Point #7:* In discussing Techniques, one person's mind-blowing, |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
436 |
door-opening example is another person's ho-hum or still another |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
437 |
person's deal-breaker. One of the most difficult problems with a |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
438 |
multi-user forum discussion is when Person X explains something about |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
439 |
the GNS-level to Person Y using a specific Techniques example, and then |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
440 |
person Z gets the idea that this Technique /is/ the GNS term. And if |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
441 |
they hate the Technique, then they fall right off the cognitive |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
442 |
mountain, sometimes irretrievably. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
443 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
444 |
/Required point of discussion/: Fear is a serious problem when dealing |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
445 |
with a third-party's reaction to these discussions. It's very common for |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
446 |
someone literally to flip out when reading a Techniques example, as the |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
447 |
example may represent (rightly or wrongly) everything that is Horribly |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
448 |
Wrong with Other Role-Players in this person's mind. Whereas for the |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
449 |
person to whom the example is addressed, the Horribly Wrong Thing might |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
450 |
be just what they're looking for; or more likely, the Techniques example |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
451 |
only works in the very localized context of that person's game being |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
452 |
discussed (which is why it was used as an example in the first place). |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
453 |
So managing these third-party reactions can be a major issue and take a |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
454 |
lot of time. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
455 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
456 |
Some final bits about discussion ... we are not talking about minor |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
457 |
issues at the Forge. We're dealing with how people socialize, how they |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
458 |
express their creative drives, and how they self-identify in a highly |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
459 |
technical subculture. The very fact that people register and post |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
460 |
denotes that they feel a /need/ to communicate about it. So the main |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
461 |
watchwords are /care/, and yet also, /detach/. The times to detach are |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
462 |
easy to recognize - whenever any of the following phrases start getting |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
463 |
thrown around. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
464 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
465 |
- "But my character would do this ..." Characters are fictional and |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
466 |
cannot make decisions in the absence of a real person's creative input. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
467 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
468 |
- "System doesn't matter, all you need is a good GM / group" ... All |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
469 |
role-playing utilizes System, and "good" in this context usually means |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
470 |
"what I want." |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
471 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
472 |
- "That upsets balance ..." Balance is a red herring unless it's defined |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
473 |
in highly specific terms. See my Gamism essay for details. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
474 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
475 |
- "That's not realistic!" Realism cannot be mandated by "rules," and |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
476 |
like balance, must be locally defined with care. No one "just knows" |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
477 |
what realism is, in actual play. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
478 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
479 |
- "The Storyteller Golden Rule ..." This rule is a big puff job, because |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
480 |
it leaves "fun" undefined, nor does it specify who can mandate when a |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
481 |
rule is to be ignored. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
482 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
483 |
However, rather than using these responses as comebacks, use them as a |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
484 |
foundation from which to defuse the potential fight. And make no |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
485 |
mistake, when a person says stuff like this, they're almost certainly |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
486 |
fighting, in response to being upset with you or with someone from the |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
487 |
past. The only solutions involve removing the confrontation, rather than |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
488 |
meeting it - all that'll get you is a headache. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
489 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
490 |
WRAP-UP |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
491 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
492 |
Any ideas for this section, anyone? I have some, but I thought I'd |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
493 |
save'em until you all stomp and shatter all of the above material into |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
494 |
more useable form. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
495 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
496 |
Best, |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
497 |
Ron |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
498 |
Logged |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
499 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
500 |
*Ben Lehman |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
501 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1007>* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
502 |
Member |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
503 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
504 |
Posts: 1464 |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
505 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
506 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
507 |
<callto://benlehman/> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
508 |
View Profile |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
509 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1007> WWW |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
510 |
<http://www.tao-games.com/> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
511 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
512 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.msg90115#msg90115> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
513 |
*The whole model - this is it |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
514 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.msg90115#msg90115>* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
515 |
« *Reply #1 on:* November 11, 2003, 04:11:21 PM » |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
516 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
517 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
518 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
519 |
Thanks. That clears a lot up for me. Still needs more digestion, but |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
520 |
at this point I can say that this matches my beliefs pretty closely... |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
521 |
Still many quibbles about other (not included in this post) details, |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
522 |
but that's what makes life interesting, isn't it? |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
523 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
524 |
A few points and questions: |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
525 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
526 |
1) Is Stance a technique, exploration, or social contract level issue? |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
527 |
I was under the impression it technique-level, but it seems to me that |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
528 |
it might be higher than that, particular with regard to Lumpley and |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
529 |
Emily style play, where it seems imbedded in the social contract at the |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
530 |
highest level... |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
531 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
532 |
2) I think that discussion of Ephemera is VERY important, because it is |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
533 |
where the rubber hits the road in terms of actual play. Saying that it |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
534 |
should all "be a discussion of techniques" seems a little strange to me. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
535 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
536 |
3) The particular layout of this explanation (as a manual for an |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
537 |
apologist {in the Catholic sense}) is slightly disturbing to me. I
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
538 |
would change it if you want this to be a reference document for people |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
539 |
who do not understand your theory, which it is excellent at doing. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
540 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
541 |
Thanks again. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
542 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
543 |
yrs-- |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
544 |
--Ben |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
545 |
Logged |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
546 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
547 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
548 |
These are our Games <http://www.tao-games.com> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
549 |
This is my Blog <http://benlehman.thesmerf.com/> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
550 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
551 |
*Ron Edwards |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
552 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9>* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
553 |
Global Moderator |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
554 |
Member |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
555 |
* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
556 |
Posts: 12610 |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
557 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
558 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
559 |
View Profile |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
560 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9> WWW |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
561 |
<http://www.sorcerer-rpg.com> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
562 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
563 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.msg90119#msg90119> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
564 |
*The whole model - this is it |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
565 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.msg90119#msg90119>* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
566 |
« *Reply #2 on:* November 11, 2003, 05:11:39 PM » |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
567 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
568 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
569 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
570 |
Hi Ben, |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
571 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
572 |
Quote |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
573 |
1) Is Stance a technique, exploration, or social contract level issue? I |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
574 |
was under the impression it technique-level, but it seems to me that it |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
575 |
might be higher than that, particular with regard to Lumpley and Emily |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
576 |
style play, where it seems imbedded in the social contract at the |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
577 |
highest level... |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
578 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
579 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
580 |
Don't forget that every single level exists /within/ the levels above it |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
581 |
- those brackets are a big deal. If you touch "Stance," you're reaching |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
582 |
through Social Contract, Exploration, Creative Agenda, and Technique to |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
583 |
do it. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
584 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
585 |
Apparently for you, tracing the patch of that "reach" or "touch" is very |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
586 |
easy and even essential. For others, Stance variations may be nearly a |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
587 |
complete non-issue. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
588 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
589 |
Quote |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
590 |
2) I think that discussion of Ephemera is VERY important, because it is |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
591 |
where the rubber hits the road in terms of actual play. Saying that it |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
592 |
should all "be a discussion of techniques" seems a little strange to me. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
593 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
594 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
595 |
I'm not sure you're representing my view correctly. Don't I say, at one |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
596 |
point, that I'm interested in discussing combinations of Ephemera and |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
597 |
how they represent or affect Technique? Seems like that would satisfy |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
598 |
your outlook. I can't see anywhere that I say "Techniques are the only |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
599 |
thing to discuss." |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
600 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
601 |
As for what level is most important, I guess I'll have to say it now: no |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
602 |
one of these levels is /The /Level for discussing role-playing. It's |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
603 |
/all /role-playing. I bet this is going to be one of these things I have |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
604 |
to say over and over and over. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
605 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
606 |
Quote |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
607 |
3) The particular layout of this explanation (as a manual for an |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
608 |
apologist {in the Catholic sense}) is slightly disturbing to me. I would
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
609 |
change it if you want this to be a reference document for people who do |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
610 |
not understand your theory, which it is excellent at doing. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
611 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
612 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
613 |
I have no idea what you're talking about. Not a bit. Rather than |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
614 |
immediately explaining, are you sure this is something worth discussing |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
615 |
in the first place? I mean, before everyone gets their oars into the |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
616 |
water regarding the basic points? |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
617 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
618 |
Best, |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
619 |
Ron |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
620 |
Logged |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
621 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
622 |
*Marco <http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=190>* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
623 |
Member |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
624 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
625 |
Posts: 1732 |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
626 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
627 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
628 |
View Profile |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
629 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=190> WWW |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
630 |
<http://www.jagsrpg.org> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
631 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
632 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.msg90131#msg90131> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
633 |
*The whole model - this is it |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
634 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.msg90131#msg90131>* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
635 |
« *Reply #3 on:* November 11, 2003, 06:33:22 PM » |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
636 |
|
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
637 |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
638 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
639 |
I'm still digesting it. I think it's an excellent effort. I'll have to |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
640 |
consider it more before having a real, cooked, response. |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
641 |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
642 |
I would separate the "problems in design" and "discussion or entry |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
643 |
points" for another document, possibly with the section on incoherence |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
644 |
being left in as a historical note. |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
645 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
646 |
I would religiously avoid using words like "desparately" and "fear" in |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
647 |
the description people who approach the theory. |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
648 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
649 |
I would remove the "literally" from the "flip-out" section unless ... |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
650 |
well ... yeah. |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
651 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
652 |
-Marco |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
653 |
Logged |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
654 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
655 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
656 |
--------------------------------------------- |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
657 |
JAGS (Just Another Gaming System) |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
658 |
a free, high-quality, universal system at: |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
659 |
http://www.jagsrpg.org |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
660 |
*Just Released: JAGS Wonderland* |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
661 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
662 |
*M. J. Young |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
663 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=712>* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
664 |
Member |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
665 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
666 |
Posts: 2126 |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
667 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
668 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
669 |
View Profile |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
670 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=712> WWW |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
671 |
<http://www.mjyoung.net/> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
672 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
673 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.msg90136#msg90136> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
674 |
*The whole model - this is it |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
675 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.msg90136#msg90136>* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
676 |
« *Reply #4 on:* November 11, 2003, 07:18:05 PM » |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
677 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
678 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
679 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
680 |
Wonderful document, Ron; I look forward to the completed piece. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
681 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
682 |
I think Ben's point was that this starts out as an explanation of GNS |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
683 |
theory and then becomes a document about how to deal with people who |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
684 |
don't understand it. A solid concise explanation of the theory in |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
685 |
present form--a sort of revision of previous documents to incorporate |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
686 |
developments from forum discussions in a concise reference document--is |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
687 |
definitely needed at this point (there are just too many places at which |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
688 |
we're saying, /read this article, but understand that the use of this |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
689 |
word has changed since it was written/), but referring newcomers to a |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
690 |
document which also discusses how to deal with newcomers isn't the best |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
691 |
approach. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
692 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
693 |
The latter half is also important; but it might work best if it were |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
694 |
changed from telling us how to do it to attempting to do it through example. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
695 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
696 |
I'll follow this thread with interest; unfortunately, I'm staring down |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
697 |
the barrel of a long away game at Rochester's UNY-con, so I'm going to |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
698 |
miss several days of posts and have to catch up again--but I've managed |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
699 |
to catch up before, so it shouldn't be too problematic. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
700 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
701 |
--M. J. Young |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
702 |
Logged |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
703 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
704 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
705 |
Check out /Multiverser <http://www.mjyoung.net/publish/>/ |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
706 |
M. J. Young Net <http://www.mjyoung.net/> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
707 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
708 |
*Ron Edwards |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
709 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9>* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
710 |
Global Moderator |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
711 |
Member |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
712 |
* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
713 |
Posts: 12610 |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
714 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
715 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
716 |
View Profile |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
717 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9> WWW |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
718 |
<http://www.sorcerer-rpg.com> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
719 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
720 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.msg90156#msg90156> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
721 |
*The whole model - this is it |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
722 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.msg90156#msg90156>* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
723 |
« *Reply #5 on:* November 11, 2003, 09:00:16 PM » |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
724 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
725 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
726 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
727 |
Hello, |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
728 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
729 |
Thanks folks! (Although "... excellent effort ..." isn't a phrase I |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
730 |
associate with much merit, being a prof and all. Digression; ignore.) |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
731 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
732 |
I should clarify: the eventual document I'm thinking about will |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
733 |
encompass only the first section, the model itself, and maybe a very |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
734 |
friendly section on rules/design, with examples of text. The current |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
735 |
post is not an outline for that document - it's intended to set up /our |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
736 |
/understanding, /now/, of what the hell I am trying to say. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
737 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
738 |
So don't worry about the eventual newcomer to the Forge and what that |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
739 |
person may or may not think of some version of the post. Just read the |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
740 |
post and tell me what does or doesn't make sense to /you/. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
741 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
742 |
Or rather, that's what I'm hoping for. If you want to contribute to the |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
743 |
thread in some mind-opening fashion that I haven't anticipated, please |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
744 |
feel free. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
745 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
746 |
Best, |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
747 |
Ron |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
748 |
Logged |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
749 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
750 |
*Eero Tuovinen |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
751 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2228>* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
752 |
Acts of Evil Playtesters |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
753 |
Member |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
754 |
* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
755 |
Posts: 974 |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
756 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
757 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
758 |
View Profile |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
759 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2228> WWW |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
760 |
<http://www.arkkikivi.net> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
761 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
762 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.msg90166#msg90166> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
763 |
*The whole model - this is it |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
764 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.msg90166#msg90166>* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
765 |
« *Reply #6 on:* November 12, 2003, 12:36:10 AM » |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
766 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
767 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
768 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
769 |
Quote from: Ron Edwards |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
770 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
771 |
So don't worry about the eventual newcomer to the Forge and what that |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
772 |
person may or may not think of some version of the post. Just read the |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
773 |
post and tell me what does or doesn't make sense to /you/. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
774 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
775 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
776 |
Makes perfect sense to me, I've been hoping for a concise overview of |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
777 |
the main points in one place. I'd like to pick one specific place in the |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
778 |
text that delighted me especially: |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
779 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
780 |
Quote from: Ron Edwards |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
781 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
782 |
Design, when all is said and done, means authorship of a rules text. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
783 |
"Rules" aren't part of the model any more. As I now see it, rules texts |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
784 |
are not and can never be "role-playing," but rather are recommendations |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
785 |
regarding the model, if you will, in hopes (shared by the readers) that |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
786 |
people who read it can get that version of the model into action. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
787 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
788 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
789 |
This is something that has for a long time been a crucial part of my |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
790 |
personal interpretation of roleplaying texts. I absolutely love seeing |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
791 |
it in writing by one of my favourite rpg theorists. I'm firmly convinced |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
792 |
that my first published game will carry the words "Guide to roleplaying |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
793 |
in [something]" on the cover. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
794 |
Logged |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
795 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
796 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
797 |
The latest publication of Arkenstone Publishing |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
798 |
<http://www.arkkikivi.net>, my Finnish indie company: |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
799 |
Piruja miehiksi <http://www.arkkikivi.net/pirujamiehiksi/>, Finnish |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
800 |
translation of /Dust Devils/ |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
801 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
802 |
*Marco <http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=190>* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
803 |
Member |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
804 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
805 |
Posts: 1732 |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
806 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
807 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
808 |
View Profile |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
809 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=190> WWW |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
810 |
<http://www.jagsrpg.org> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
811 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
812 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.msg90191#msg90191> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
813 |
*The whole model - this is it |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
814 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.msg90191#msg90191>* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
815 |
« *Reply #7 on:* November 12, 2003, 08:07:47 AM » |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
816 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
817 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
818 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
819 |
By excellent effort, I meant "looks good, I'll have to put some real |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
820 |
analsis in to see how successful at hitting all of its goals I think it |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
821 |
was--It'll take me some time." Not: 'nice try, try again.' |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
822 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
823 |
I think the post is (at least in proto-form) exactly what GNS needs. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
824 |
Splitting the content into a few documents is a good idea too. That |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
825 |
wasn't clear to me until you said it. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
826 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
827 |
On splitting them up: |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
828 |
I would formally separate theory, ramifications for game design, and |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
829 |
utility and implementation from the basic theory meaning: |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
830 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
831 |
1. Have a section on the theory very similar to the first part of what |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
832 |
is there, if not identical. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
833 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
834 |
2. Have a secion on GNS analysis of play (I'd be interesting in seeing |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
835 |
what the purpose, value, and method of GNS analysis of play is) |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
836 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
837 |
3. Have a section on "this is what I/we think the ramifications of GNS |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
838 |
are for game-design" (using what's up there) |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
839 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
840 |
4. Have a secion on "Here's how I/we think this perspective could be |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
841 |
used to help solve what I/we think are some common problems during |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
842 |
play." (with the perspective and vocabulary notes and a discussion of |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
843 |
dysfunction seen from a GNS POV). |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
844 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
845 |
This write up does most (or at least some) of this very well |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
846 |
already--separating them formally would help to see what pieces are seen |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
847 |
as theory and what pieces are seen as ramification or utility (I see the |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
848 |
mxing of these as a major stumbling block to the understanding of GNS as |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
849 |
a whole). |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
850 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
851 |
Also: |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
852 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
853 |
I need to carefully examine the arrows in the Venn Diagram. I get thay |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
854 |
they mean sort of "follow from" but I'm not sure how that's different |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
855 |
than "composed from." |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
856 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
857 |
And: |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
858 |
For each section maybe a formal: |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
859 |
*Description * [what's there] |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
860 |
*Example*: ["Fortune resolution, for example, rolling the dice to see if |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
861 |
an action is judged successful by the group is an example of a technique." ] |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
862 |
[/b]Definition of important terms[/b] [Karma, Drama, and Fortune, |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
863 |
discussed in depth here are three major techniques for outcome resolution.] |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
864 |
*Caveats*: [Note: there has been discussion of GNS modes lining up with |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
865 |
resolution techniques so that one would say "Narrativist mode is best |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
866 |
facilitated by Drama Technique." While that may sound reasonable for a |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
867 |
variety of reasons, examination of the that theory has shown it to be |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
868 |
false. A given Drama technique might or might not be good for |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
869 |
Narrativist play-mode--but so might any other technique. Thus Techniques |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
870 |
are said to be node-agnostic."] |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
871 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
872 |
The Creative Agenda section isn't clear to me (which, I think is my |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
873 |
fault--I'm not saying it's not clear or poorly written). I'm not sure |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
874 |
who you're talking to when you say you're profoundly uninterested in |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
875 |
discussing nuances: me as someone reviewing the document or me as |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
876 |
someone coming to it at the first time. If the latter, I'd change it. To |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
877 |
me that section looks like a placeholder for a real description of G/N/S |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
878 |
modes. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
879 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
880 |
Also: There's an issue of GNS as a description of play (we watched play |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
881 |
and this is what it looked like to us--we saw three basic categories). |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
882 |
For me (and maybe only me) there's a lot of question about that (as I've |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
883 |
said, from an internal standpoint the theory makes a lot of sense to |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
884 |
me--from an observational standpoint, it's not as clear to me). |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
885 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
886 |
A discussion of that in the Creative Agenda session would be good (I see |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
887 |
the three essays speaking to internal intent--I don't know what |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
888 |
step-on-up looks like distinct from exploration of situation and |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
889 |
character but I can tell when I'm doing it--and maybe no one has a clear |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
890 |
textual discription (although I'd be surprised if that's the case)--but |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
891 |
addressing that would help with the GNS-is-about-intent/no-it-isn't issue). |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
892 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
893 |
-Marco |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
894 |
Logged |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
895 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
896 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
897 |
--------------------------------------------- |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
898 |
JAGS (Just Another Gaming System) |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
899 |
a free, high-quality, universal system at: |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
900 |
http://www.jagsrpg.org |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
901 |
*Just Released: JAGS Wonderland* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
902 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
903 |
*The GM <http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1821>* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
904 |
Member |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
905 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
906 |
Posts: 58 |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
907 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
908 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
909 |
View Profile |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
910 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1821> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
911 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
912 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.msg90196#msg90196> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
913 |
*The whole model - this is it |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
914 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.msg90196#msg90196>* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
915 |
« *Reply #8 on:* November 12, 2003, 08:20:09 AM » |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
916 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
917 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
918 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
919 |
Ron says: |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
920 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
921 |
>>(snip) I'd especially like to talk about combinations of Ephemera |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
922 |
relative to one or more Techniques, and combinations of Techniques |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
923 |
relative to one or more categories within Creative Agenda.<< |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
924 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
925 |
Neato. This (I think) is what I?ve been trying to get some input about, |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
926 |
although I didn?t say it quite like this in my recent thread. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
927 |
Specifically, I?m looking for hard and fast guidelines to facilitate |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
928 |
this ?stuff? in such a manner that it fits our troupe?s style of agreed |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
929 |
play. Now, is that goal realistic considering the vast potential for |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
930 |
various in game outcomes when you start mixing and matching all of these |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
931 |
elements together? I firmly think so, although I may not know how to do |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
932 |
that just yet. This is why I?ve been taking a hard look at communication |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
933 |
techniques that would yield specific results (those results being ?the |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
934 |
game? that we?ve all agreed we want to play.) |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
935 |
I know that in RL, certain words used in a certain order will result in |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
936 |
a very specific outcome. Politicians are masters of what we typically |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
937 |
call spin. For instance, if you hear a politician say, ?If we do not win |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
938 |
the war on terror abroad at all costs, then we will become victims of |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
939 |
fear in our own homes, our country will falter.? What he?s really just |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
940 |
done is employed a conversation technique called a Closing Triplicate of |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
941 |
Choice. Really, when you hear that, what automatically happens is that |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
942 |
you run through the options and pick the lesser of the evils. ?Hmmm?I |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
943 |
don?t want to be a victim; I don?t want the country to falter, so I |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
944 |
guess we have to win the war at all costs.? That way of conversing is |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
945 |
designed to put your mind in a specific frame of thinking. This kind of |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
946 |
communication is far from new, but it works to provoke a specific |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
947 |
response, (in this example, support for an agenda.) Could the same be |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
948 |
done for creating an atmosphere where a game stays on track? Again, I |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
949 |
think so. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
950 |
Now, I?m not saying that I want to have to use a script to run or play |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
951 |
in a game. Blah, boring. It would, however, be helpful to have something |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
952 |
firm to refer back to in order to keep a game from identity crisis. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
953 |
I think about this topic a lot lately. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
954 |
;) |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
955 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
956 |
I'll be interested to follow this discussion and see where it leads. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
957 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
958 |
Warm Regards, |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
959 |
Lisa |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
960 |
Logged |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
961 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
962 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
963 |
Warm Regards, |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
964 |
Lisa |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
965 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
966 |
*Ben Lehman |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
967 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1007>* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
968 |
Member |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
969 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
970 |
Posts: 1464 |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
971 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
972 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
973 |
<callto://benlehman/> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
974 |
View Profile |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
975 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1007> WWW |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
976 |
<http://www.tao-games.com/> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
977 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
978 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.msg90210#msg90210> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
979 |
*The whole model - this is it |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
980 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.msg90210#msg90210>* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
981 |
« *Reply #9 on:* November 12, 2003, 09:30:26 AM » |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
982 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
983 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
984 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
985 |
Quote from: Ron Edwards |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
986 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
987 |
Quote |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
988 |
2) I think that discussion of Ephemera is VERY important, because it is |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
989 |
where the rubber hits the road in terms of actual play. Saying that it |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
990 |
should all "be a discussion of techniques" seems a little strange to me. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
991 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
992 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
993 |
I'm not sure you're representing my view correctly. Don't I say, at one |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
994 |
point, that I'm interested in discussing combinations of Ephemera and |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
995 |
how they represent or affect Technique? Seems like that would satisfy |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
996 |
your outlook. I can't see anywhere that I say "Techniques are the only |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
997 |
thing to discuss." |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
998 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
999 |
As for what level is most important, I guess I'll have to say it now: no |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1000 |
one of these levels is /The /Level for discussing role-playing. It's |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1001 |
/all /role-playing. I bet this is going to be one of these things I have |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1002 |
to say over and over and over. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1003 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1004 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1005 |
BL> Yup. Imagine so. On reread, I think I misread some stuff. Apologies. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1006 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1007 |
Quote |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1008 |
3) The particular layout of this explanation (as a manual for an |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1009 |
apologist {in the Catholic sense}) is slightly disturbing to me. I would
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1010 |
change it if you want this to be a reference document for people who do |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1011 |
not understand your theory, which it is excellent at doing. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1012 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1013 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1014 |
I have no idea what you're talking about. Not a bit. Rather than |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1015 |
immediately explaining, are you sure this is something worth discussing |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1016 |
in the first place? I mean, before everyone gets their oars into the |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1017 |
water regarding the basic points? |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1018 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1019 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1020 |
BL> Your own later posts regarding the "mission objectives" of this |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1021 |
layout cleared things up a bit. MJ expressed my viewpoint much better |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1022 |
than I ever could. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1023 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1024 |
yrs-- |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1025 |
--Ben |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1026 |
Logged |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1027 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1028 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1029 |
These are our Games <http://www.tao-games.com> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1030 |
This is my Blog <http://benlehman.thesmerf.com/> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1031 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1032 |
*Ron Edwards |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1033 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9>* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1034 |
Global Moderator |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1035 |
Member |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1036 |
* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1037 |
Posts: 12610 |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1038 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1039 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1040 |
View Profile |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1041 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9> WWW |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1042 |
<http://www.sorcerer-rpg.com> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1043 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1044 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.msg90215#msg90215> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1045 |
*The whole model - this is it |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1046 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.msg90215#msg90215>* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1047 |
« *Reply #10 on:* November 12, 2003, 09:47:34 AM » |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1048 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1049 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1050 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1051 |
Hello, |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1052 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1053 |
Further reflection has clarified my own goals for this thread. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1054 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1055 |
You know, I think that I'm not interested in suggestions for editing and |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1056 |
presenting. That was a bad thing even to mention. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1057 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1058 |
I'm interested in whether /you/, the Forge folks, understand what I'm |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1059 |
saying. If there's anything you need clarified about the model as |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1060 |
presented, or anything you think doesn't hold up, then now's the time to |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1061 |
say it. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1062 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1063 |
I'm very committed to reviewing and refining the material in the |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1064 |
Discussing the Model section. Those are phrased as recommendations for a |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1065 |
reason, and presented in the post for a reason. I would very much like |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1066 |
to get confirmation and/or attempts at refutation about all seven of the |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1067 |
points. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1068 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1069 |
I don't mind mentioning that quibbles about internal issues of Creative |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1070 |
Agenda are right out the window. I'm profoundly sick of GNS talk, |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1071 |
frankly. I'm convinced that once the model as a whole is better |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1072 |
understood, then dozens upon dozens of "GNS issues" will simply evaporate. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1073 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1074 |
I'm specifically interested in whether Creative Agenda, as the bridge |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1075 |
from [Social Contract [Exploration]] to [Techniques], is acceptable as |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1076 |
an absolute necessity in understanding role-playing. Realize that this |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1077 |
claim was and is absolutely anathema among most vocal participants and |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1078 |
publishers in the hobby. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1079 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1080 |
I'm also interested in what I mentioned in the essay about |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1081 |
Techniques-to-Creative Agenda, and Ephemera-to-Techniques. Lisa's post |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1082 |
is, in my view, the most valuable one so far to develop in this thread. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1083 |
I have plenty of thoughts on this issue and would appreciate some input |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1084 |
about yours. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1085 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1086 |
So from now on, please, no more editing or presentation suggestions. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1087 |
Talk about the material. This thread is not about what some hypothetical |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1088 |
other people will think and feel about the model, but about /you/. Say, |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1089 |
"YES, I AGREE, ESPECIALLY ABOUT X," or, "NO, YOU MAKE NO SENSE AND |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1090 |
HERE'S WHY," or "GEE, WHAT ABOUT THIS PART HERE." That sort of thing. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1091 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1092 |
Without that kind of dialogue for a while, I'm considering closing up |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1093 |
the whole forum. That's not a threat, but rather a statement that I |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1094 |
don't see any point to public/forum GNS-wrangling without a strong and |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1095 |
easily-reinforced shared understanding of the big picture. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1096 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1097 |
Best, |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1098 |
Ron |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1099 |
Logged |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1100 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1101 |
*Valamir <http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=36>* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1102 |
Member |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1103 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1104 |
Posts: 4859 |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1105 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1106 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1107 |
View Profile |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1108 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=36> WWW |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1109 |
<http://www.ramshead.indie-rpgs.com> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1110 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1111 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.msg90219#msg90219> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1112 |
*The whole model - this is it |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1113 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.msg90219#msg90219>* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1114 |
« *Reply #11 on:* November 12, 2003, 10:08:33 AM » |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1115 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1116 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1117 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1118 |
Quote |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1119 |
I'm specifically interested in whether Creative Agenda, as the bridge |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1120 |
from [Social Contract [Exploration]] to [Techniques], is acceptable as |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1121 |
an absolute necessity in understanding role-playing. Realize that this |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1122 |
claim was and is absolutely anathema among most vocal participants and |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1123 |
publishers in the hobby. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1124 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1125 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1126 |
I think you rightly point out that this is the crux of the entire model. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1127 |
I don't think you'll find anyone who games (even without spending much |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1128 |
time thinking about it) who will disagree with the idea that social |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1129 |
issues impact game experience. I don't think you'll find anyone who |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1130 |
hasn't found mechanics and techniques that work profoundly well (and |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1131 |
others that work poorly) to deliver the kind of game they want. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1132 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1133 |
The issue then is this idea of a Creative Agenda beyond simply "having |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1134 |
fun sharing a hobby with my friends" and much deeper than "I don't like |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1135 |
dice pool mechanics or hard scene framing". |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1136 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1137 |
I think the fact of the existance of "something" going on in that |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1138 |
Creative Agenda space is pretty irrefutable. Enjoying RPGs must require |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1139 |
something more than the sum of Social conciderations plus Techniques or |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1140 |
there wouldn't continue to be dysfunctional play. If all that is |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1141 |
required is selecting some powerful favorite techniques and then making |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1142 |
sure everyone at the table is on good civil terms and committed to each |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1143 |
others enjoyment...then nearly every game would be a rageing success. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1144 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1145 |
Clearly there's something else going on there, and for purposes of this |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1146 |
model we call that something else "Creative Agenda". |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1147 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1148 |
I'm particularly impressed with the fact that this format of |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1149 |
presentation (speaking of the article overall here) is quite powerful at |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1150 |
identifying and seperating out the component part. At being able to set |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1151 |
aside the specifics of the component parts altogether and just talk |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1152 |
about the processes of the model. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1153 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1154 |
This enables us to look at and "approve" (if you will) of the overall |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1155 |
framework of the model, without getting caught up (again, and again, and |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1156 |
again) in debating trivial nuance ad naseum (guilty). It focuses |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1157 |
attention on the "forest" so we can all agree that we are, indeed, |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1158 |
looking at a forest, before delving deep into the individual trees. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1159 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1160 |
I'm envisioning the final version of this document as a sort of master |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1161 |
article that we can be reasonably confident is about as final and |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1162 |
finished as likely to get. Each box on the Venn can then be hyperlinked |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1163 |
to an article talking deeper about each item, and ideally serve as a |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1164 |
place to list links to appropriate threads on the topic. In this way |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1165 |
the sub articles can be more easily updated to reflect "current thinking |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1166 |
on the nature of Techniques. See also <these 6 threads> for additional |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1167 |
thoughts and the development of the concepts. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1168 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1169 |
To make Mike happy these sub articles could be ideal to set up as a Wiki |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
1170 |
where it becomes trivial for various parties to submit links and add to |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
1171 |
content (supposedly...I can't figure the think out), with links from |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1172 |
them to other articles (such as the 3 GNS ones, etc.) |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1173 |
Logged |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1174 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1175 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1176 |
Ralph Mazza |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1177 |
Universalis: The Game of Unlimited Stories |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
1178 |
<http://www.ramshead.indie-rpgs.com> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
1179 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1180 |
*C. Edwards |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1181 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=354>* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1182 |
Member |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
1183 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1184 |
Posts: 540 |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
1185 |
|
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
1186 |
|
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1187 |
View Profile |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1188 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=354> WWW |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1189 |
<http://www.livejournal.com/users/thickenergy/> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
1190 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
1191 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.msg90221#msg90221> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
1192 |
*The whole model - this is it |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1193 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.msg90221#msg90221>* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1194 |
« *Reply #12 on:* November 12, 2003, 10:19:40 AM » |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
1195 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
1196 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1197 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1198 |
Hey Ron, |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1199 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
1200 |
Looks great to me. It's nice to see so much of the current thought all |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
1201 |
together on the same page. I particularly like that you repeatedly point |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1202 |
out that System reaches down and through the lower level boxes. (I've |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
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|
1203 |
been thinking of it like the funnel of a tornado.) |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1204 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1205 |
Oh, have you considered changing the name of the model? The current |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1206 |
moniker seems to cause quite a bit of focus on particulars of Creative |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1207 |
Agenda, often resulting in tunnel-vision in regards to the model as a whole. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1208 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1209 |
-Chris |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1210 |
Logged |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1211 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1212 |
*Lxndr <http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1659>* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1213 |
Acts of Evil Playtesters |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1214 |
Member |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1215 |
* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1216 |
Posts: 1026 |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1217 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1218 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1219 |
View Profile |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1220 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1659> WWW |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1221 |
<http://www.twistedconfessions.com> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1222 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1223 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.msg90225#msg90225> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1224 |
*The whole model - this is it |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1225 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.msg90225#msg90225>* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1226 |
« *Reply #13 on:* November 12, 2003, 10:54:07 AM » |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1227 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1228 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1229 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1230 |
I am very glad to see "Creative Agenda" replace "G/N/S". Granted, I'm |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1231 |
aware G/N/S is still a popular construction, but your new Venn Diagram |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1232 |
allows for alternative theories on Creative Agenda in particular (like |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1233 |
the ever-popular "Beeg Horseshoe") without implicit contradiction. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1234 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1235 |
That said, I agree with Chris that it'd be nice to see the entire theory |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1236 |
no longer be called "the GNS model" since, well, the name itself brings |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1237 |
an unhealthy amount of focus on that one part of the model... |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1238 |
Logged |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1239 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1240 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1241 |
Alexander Cherry, Master of the Inkstained Robes |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1242 |
Twisted Confessions Game Design <http://www.twistedconfessions.com> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1243 |
Moderator of Indie Netgaming |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1244 |
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/indie-netgaming/> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1245 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1246 |
*Matt Snyder |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1247 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=234>* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1248 |
Member |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1249 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1250 |
Posts: 1142 |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1251 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1252 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1253 |
View Profile |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1254 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=234> WWW |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1255 |
<http://www.chimera.info> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1256 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1257 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.msg90232#msg90232> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1258 |
*The whole model - this is it |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1259 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.msg90232#msg90232>* |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1260 |
« *Reply #14 on:* November 12, 2003, 11:19:39 AM » |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1261 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1262 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1263 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1264 |
Quote |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1265 |
I'm specifically interested in whether Creative Agenda, as the bridge |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1266 |
from [Social Contract [Exploration]] to [Techniques], is acceptable as |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1267 |
an absolute necessity in understanding role-playing. Realize that this |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1268 |
claim was and is absolutely anathema among most vocal participants and |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1269 |
publishers in the hobby. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1270 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1271 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1272 |
Yes, yes, a thousand times, yes. In light of my own group's recent |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1273 |
discussions, this was the key issue. While I don't expect my fellow |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1274 |
group members to be able right now to write an essay on Creative Agenda, |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1275 |
I do think they have recognized their right and need to understand just |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1276 |
what /exactly/ it is we as a group are going to sit down and do for our |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1277 |
enjoyment. |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1278 |
|
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1279 |
I'll say that again. Each /person/ who choses to play a role-playing |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1280 |
game with other people has a /right/ to understand just what it is that |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1281 |
he will be doing when the group actually plays the game. Similarly, with |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1282 |
right comes responsibility. It is a person's responsibility to recognize |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1283 |
what his group's Creative Agenda is. Failure to do so absurdly risks |
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bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1284 |
one's enjoyment, and one's right to enjoyment. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1285 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1286 |
While many publishers aren't, to my mind, openly fighting against that |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1287 |
right, what they are doing is either clumsily ignoring that right OR |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1288 |
disingenuinely undermining that right with inconsistent positions on |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1289 |
what the /act/ of role-playing is versus the /act/ of maintaining the |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1290 |
industry and/or culture is. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1291 |
Logged |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1292 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1293 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1294 |
Matt Snyder |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1295 |
www.chimera.info <http://www.chimera.info> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1296 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1297 |
"The future ain't what it used to be." |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1298 |
--Yogi Berra |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1299 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1300 |
*Pages:* [*1*] 2 |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1301 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.15> 3 |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1302 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.30> * ... *5 |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1303 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.60> Print |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1304 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=8655.0> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1305 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1306 |
« previous |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1307 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655.0;prev_next=prev> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1308 |
next » |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1309 |
<http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=8655;prev_next=next> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1310 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1311 |
Jump to: |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1312 |
|
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1313 |
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|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1314 |
Powered by MySQL <http://www.mysql.com/> Powered by PHP |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1315 |
<http://www.php.net/> The Forge | Powered by SMF 1.0.5 |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1316 |
<http://www.simplemachines.org/>. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1317 |
© 2001-2005, Lewis Media <http://www.lewismedia.com/>. All Rights Reserved. |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1318 |
*Oxygen* design by Bloc <http://www.bloczone.net> Valid XHTML 1.0! |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1319 |
<http://validator.w3.org/check/referer> Valid CSS! |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1320 |
<http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/check/referer> |
|
bdef1afd1170
[svn] r2271@freebird: fabien | 2006-08-30 21:33:34 -0400
fabien
parents:
diff
changeset
|
1321 |