diff -r 3164c82ac16e -r bdef1afd1170 draft/scatter-5.txt --- /dev/null Thu Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 +0000 +++ b/draft/scatter-5.txt Wed Aug 30 21:32:44 2006 -0400 @@ -0,0 +1,2368 @@ +About the Forge | Articles | Forum | +Reviews | Resource Library + + * +* <#> +Home +Help +Search +Login +Register +Welcome, *Guest*. Please login + or register +. +Did you miss your activation email? + +March 15, 2006, 02:55:25 PM + +Login with username, password and session length + + +*Forum changes:* Editing of posts has been turned off until further notice. + +*Search: * Advanced search + + +*198794* Posts in *18708* Topics by *5988* Members Latest Member: * - +kuljek +* Most +online today: *113* - most online ever: *271* (February 22, 2006, +03:03:12 PM) + ++ *The Forge * +|-+ *Inactive Forums * +| |-+ *Scattershot * +| | |-+ *Part V: Peeling Back the Layers - The Real Deal +* « previous + +next » + + +*Pages:* [*1*] Print + + +Author Topic: Part V: Peeling Back the Layers - The Real Deal (Read +914 times) + +*Le Joueur * +Member + +Posts: 1363 + + +View Profile + WWW + + + +*Part V: Peeling Back the Layers - The Real Deal +* +« * on:* January 01, 2002, 08:43:00 PM » + + +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +January 24th, 2002 - + +At the behest of my friends here on the Forge, I will present +Scattershot at the point I have it. Even though this is a +work-in-progress and much of the terminology is in a state of flux, I am +not trying to present a diary of the progress. Expect the lead +component of this thread to undergo changes as Scattershot does. This +edition was originally put together very early on Tuesday, January 1st, +2002. This series of articles will detail strictly the mechanics of +Scattershot, articles relating to the techniques of 'how to play' will +have to wait until I have more of them centralized and organized. The +third major component of the game, the setting and genre material is +will be addressed once I get a new batch of playtesters. + +So at last we come to the mechanics. This is where we formalize the +'flow of play' in support of emotionally engaging contextual thinking +. + We are going to examine primarily the Advanced Scattershot mechanics + +across the whole range of 'Densities' from General to Mechanical + +play. We're going to fully formalize the process of passing who the +Speaker + is +during scenes + +within a game into the communal language + and +mechanics of Scattershot. + +At its simplest level, the Scattershot mechanic is little more than a +resolution system + +with trimmings. Every ability (or quality of any entity within a +Scattershot game) is described by a Rating. Before I talk about using +these Ratings, I think I should describe 'how to get them.' + +Fat Points + + Scattershot's point-based system requires that you 'buy' abilities + using character points, during character generation or evolution, + in order to take full advantage of them. Since simplicity is one + of the design specifications and it is a point-based system, we + quickly decided that to raise any rating 1 point would cost 1 + point. This makes Scattershot's points 'worth more' than most + games (by a factor of 3, 5, or in some cases 10 or higher). + + Some have suggested that this lacks a limit on the 'return on + investments.' This is only an illusion. Scattershot's die + mechanic (more in just a bit) creates a sigmoid graph (which means + more and more points give less and less improvement in probability + terms). Also, when a player has more points to 'spend' there are + obviously more choices to make (Scattershot will have rather long + 'laundry' lists of abilities to choose from - for players who + aren't interested in lists, it's not hard to make up abilities + instead of searching for them, the lists are mostly to help + players get inspired); this means that most of the time, these + points will tend to get 'spread out' more. + + The second part of having a point-based system we do differently + is that there are no point cut-offs. Instead of saying, "you only + have 30 points to spend," we point out that more points means a + character has a higher or broader efficacy in general. + Concentrations of points in a single ability means that a + character is expected to excel at (or be somewhat defined by) that + ability (like a gunfighter - who /should/ have a high 'quickdraw' + skill). Based on this quality, the rest of the group can form a + quick understanding of 'how able' a character is and can play + accordingly. + + All abilities (which does not /appear/ to include Stats) require + that at least one point (not including Free Skills1 - more on that + later) be spent on them in order that the character can make full + use of them (Stats /are/ the same except a 'hidden' point is spent + on each prior to character generation). Abilities not 'spent + upon' can only be used at a 'default' rating (which means they + have certain functional restrictions). Abilities are ranked from + Free1, to Easy, Intermediate, or Difficult (on up to Exceptional, + Renowned, Incredible, Nigh Impossible, and Legendary - this is + actually based on an explicit formulation of efficacy, see 'making + up your own abilities' below). + + Free skills1 (which make up almost all of the Free abilities) are + included to cover things that are generally taken to 'flesh out' a + character (and have much higher 'starting' Ratings than other + abilities, as listed with each). Rather than making things like + academic-based characters very expensive, they allow a broad range + of 'background' skills. There is only a minor cost that accrues + for taking /many/ Free skills1. All other abilities receive their + rank not by some arbitrary standard, but how they relate to one + and another in terms of efficacy in general and specifically how + they relate to the template abilities (that are used to create + additional material by the participants - see 'making up your own + abilities' below). (Technically 'Free skills' do this too, but + the point cost is also 'hidden'.) + + The Rating of an Easy ability is the 'points spent on it' plus 11, + Intermediate abilities are 'points plus 10,' Difficult is 'plus 9' + (and so on)². (As an example, Superpowers are of Incredible rank, + but in the example powers - a fairly wide list - may be treated as + Difficult with a 'buy in' cost of 3 for Ratings purposes; + numerically the result is the same.) Natural human range for all + abilities (Stats included) is 8-14 with a median of 10 (any rating + is possible, but a 15 means the character is at least superhuman + in that respect - and that may require additional explanation in + the character's description).[/list:u]What Do You Do with These + Ratings? + + When an Instantaneous, Invoked + + Rating is 'checked³' for an Immediate action + + by an Individual + , + after determining the necessary rating, two ten-sided dice + are rolled and their sum* is subtracted from this rating (so + rolling lower is better). The difference is called a MIB + (short for Made-It-By) number. Rolling higher than the + Rating is a failure or MIB (Missed-It-By) number; a roll + equal to the rating has 'just made it.' There are many + different types of Modifiers that can be applied to this + roll. Beyond the familiar range, size, and opportunity + modifiers you would expect, there can also be Residual, + Scope, and Duration + + modifiers when the available ability is not a perfect match + for the needed action. + + A MIB becomes a contested 'check3' by having any party who + is 'engaged' by the action actively resist it. After the + modifiers are applied, both parties roll separate MIB + numbers, and then subtract the resistor's MIB number from + the MIB of the character performing the original action. + Sometimes the resistor's MIB number can be derived as + either a Reactive or Residual + + MIB number, depending on the circumstances. The Resulting + MIB (or RMIB) number is used to determine the /quality/ of + the success of the action (just like the MIB number in an + uncontested roll).[/list:u]Taking Turns + + As I mentioned in the first installment + , + Scattershot formalizes the 'flow of play,' especially + at times of high emotion + . + Just like the normal tendency to formalize play + during cacophony + , + Scattershot switches to a rigid play-order during + Mechanical play + . + A lot of game systems use complicated mechanics to + create some kind of turn order related to the efficacy + of combat-skilled characters. For as much trouble as + I have seen this cause, it never seems to be a + reasonable return for such wargame inspired mechanics. + + During Mechanical play + , + Scattershot does a very simple thing; play goes + counter-clockwise around the group (play passes to + your right once you have taken the turns for each of + the characters you play). Each time around the group + is called a Round (simple huh?). What about all those + things complicated games capture with their turn-order + mechanics? Well, it seemed to us they were trying to + emulate the kinds of advantages characters could have + over each other in melee, so we created the Combat + Advantage system (I'll come back to that later) + instead.[/list:u]Who Goes First? + + Another feature that seemed to us a needless + complication was all of those 'initiative' + mechanics. Ultimately, they only seem to + mitigate who makes the actual 'first swing;' + while that can have important consequences in + fairly lethal systems, it seems to completely + eliminate those tense and exciting 'leading up + to combat' scenes. The tense circling, the + traded insults, having guns at the ready yet not + wanting to 'make the first move.' Looking at + all these examples with an eye towards writing + mechanics, I could only see one thing. /The + battle had already started./ + + In the source material, sometimes it seemed like + a mental battle, sometimes not, but it always + 'felt' like they were already using Mechanical + play + . + So how were they fighting without trading + blows? It looked like they were 'looking for an + opening,' seeking the 'advantage,' or the like. + (I'll get to Combat Advantage in a moment.) If + that is the case, /then/ who starts it? That + seemed simple, whoever first chooses to act as + though battle is inevitable. Whether it is the + cowhand walking into the bar spoiling for a + fight, savages springing from an ambush, the + dandy striking with his white glove, or a pirate + slowly drawing his cutlass from its scabbard, + the character who makes the decision that battle + is a foregone conclusion is the one who takes + the first Mechanical play + + turn; it's that simple.[/list:u]What about + Bigger, Faster Combat? + + During Mechanical play + , + scope is an important feature to keep + track of. Things like naval engagements, + a battle like Waterloo, and those mass + combat scenes from The Hobbit and + Braveheart will only rarely have an + Individual Scope aspect (and even then the + battle itself is usually handled 'behind + the scenes' + ) + and are usually only in Specific play + . + Our mechanic for melee is, if the + characters played by one participant + outnumber the rest of the group /of + players/, you will usually need to switch + to a 'higher' level of Scope + + than Individual + + play. This keeps things from 'bogging + down' the pacing, like a battle against + bad odds. This also allows the system to + simplify handling what I believe are + called 'mooks' more easily. + + While we're talking about melee, I would + like to describe a seemingly unique + feature of Scattershot. Now you probably + don't imagine using Involved actions + + in Individual + + melee, but we have a way where it seems + almost necessary. To me, when a + gunslinger sizes up his opponent, waits + for them to 'twitch,' draws his gun, and + fires as though he'd aimed; these four + actions actually count as a single + Involved action + . + The same is true for those 'Hong Kong + Martial Arts Theatre' movie moves, a whole + flurry of actions that Scattershot treats + as a single Involved action. (Because of + the nature of this contested action and + how the actual landed blow is determined, + Scattershot resolves this as a /series/ of + die rolls between subject and actor.) + + When a character knows a martial art that + includes any of these Involved + + sequences of actions and they have an + opportunity to act, they may use one /as + though it were a single action/. In many + cases, the literal sequence will be + described by a loose 'script' that can be + customized 'on the fly' during play. + These sequences can be followed to their + end, provided every component is fended + off or the whole sequence is not + interrupted (specific mechanics of + interruption apply).[/list:u]How Do I + Defend Myself? + + In Scattershot, whenever someone + makes a melee action against your + character, the have 'engaged' them. + When your character is thus + engaged, you may Forfeit one of + their upcoming actions (if they have + any left this Round) and perform a + Reactive or defensive action with + its MIB roll. (And performing such + a Forfeited action can be a lead in + to a flurry of actions, /by the + defender/, so be careful who you + engage, you might regret it.) After + you have Forfeited both of your + character's actions, they may + perform nothing but 'free actions' + until the end of their next + turn.[/list:u]What was that about + Advantage? + + During a melee, many things + happen, too many to easily + catalog as mechanics. In + order to reflect the many, + varied ways that combatants + can shift the tide of battle, + we created the Combat + Advantage mechanic. Basically + speaking, it is any action + that would result in a + Residual penalty + + against the opponent that your + character holds the Advantage + over. Scattershot's + techniques discuss what can be + or should not be worthy of + creating this Residual penalty + ; + what kinds of actions will + create Advantage, what sorts + will support an Advantage, and + what one can do to erode + another's Advantage over you. + (I'm not going into the + specifics here unless requested.) + + This mechanic of Combat + Advantage is what replaces + most other games' rules for + initiative and complex + turn-order rules (which, as + far as I can tell, only result + in some kind of advantage + anyway).[/list:u]What if I Miss? + + In many cases during + Specific play + + a roll might Miss-It-By + just a point or two. + After the MIB number is + calculated, the + character's player may + opt to 'Buy a Success' + by changing one of the + parameters of the + attempt /after the + fact/. Let's say an + auto mechanic + Missed-It-By 1 (often + just MIB -1), his player + can turn this failure + into a success by + changing the amount of + time it took, or by + requiring more parts and + thus cost (or both if + they Missed-It-By 2). A + 'bought' success is + never higher than 'just + making it.' In + Mechanical play + , + like melee, if a player + needs to 'Buy a Success' + they can do things like + give ground, yield + Combat Advantage, dive + for cover, or something + more descriptive like + going down on one knee + as long as the group + seems receptive to the + complication it creates. + + If you can 'Buy a + Success,' why not be + able to 'Sell a + Success?' The mechanic + for when you 'Sell a + Success' is called the + /±5 mechanic/. To take + longer, you find the + duration on the UE Chart + + and then count up or + down 5 points. This way + you can /add or + subtract/ to the amount + affected; 'extra' points + of success can also be + 'spent' on Residual + modifiers. You can + likewise 'buy' a point + of Combat Advantage + (which is of course just + another form of Residual + modifier + anyway).[/list:u]Critical + Junctures + + In setting up a + game, the + participants need + to fix how 'epic' + or 'over the top' + they want to play. + The primary way + this is done is by + adjusting the + Critical Juncture + Threshold. The + core suggested + threshold is 7. + This means + whenever any + modified MIB + number is 7 or + higher, the player + of the character + this 'goes + against' is + compelled to + create a + description of not + only what has + happened but must + also indicate how + this forms a + turning point for + their character. + (I especially + like the title + character's first + encounter with the + Sheriff of + Nottingham, in + Robin Hood: Prince + of Thieves. Robin + clearly scores a + /Telling Blow/ - + matching or + exceeding the + Critical Juncture + Threshold of the + game. The + Sheriff's player, + rather than taking + a horrible wound, + describes a fatal + attack on his + vanity, taking on + a new Disadvantage.) + + Likewise, if a + player rolls a + Missed-It-By + number 7 or more + points above the + modified Rating + used, they are + also compelled to + describe what kind + of fantastic + mistake occurs. + This + /Catastrophic + Failure/ must also + be something of a + 'turning point.' + In contested + rolls, a Telling + Blow is only + described when the + RMIB /continues/ + to exceeds the + Critical Juncture + Threshold after + being calculated. + The Critical + Juncture Threshold + also controls a + number of other + features in the + game. For + example, the total + of the Critical + Juncture number + and Epic Value³ + (which limits the + maximum length of + Flurries of + Action) must be + ten or less (id + est, in a game + where the Critical + Juncture is 6, + then flurries may + not exceed 4 in a + row). This keeps + all the 'epic' + qualities in line + for a single + game.[/list:u]/In + Case I Forgot to + Mention:/ + + Uses of + Types in + Mechanical + play + : + most + abilities + used will be + Invoked + + Ratings, + what these + affect is + often + limited by + Magnitude + + Ratings. + 'What gets + affected' + will + frequently + be a + Resource + + Rating. + + For example, + if your + character + /punches/ + mine (and + they don't + have a + related + melee + skill), they + will + generate a + MIB number + based on an + Invoked use + of their + Agility + Stat. If + they have an + unusually + high + Strength, in + its + Magnitude + role, the + Multiplier + facet of the + UE Chart + will be + indexed and + that will + multiply the + RMIB. This + will be the + /basic/ + damage which + unless + modified is + taken from + my Hit + Points in + their + Resource + role. + Likewise, + if your + character + wanted to + throw a + water tower + on a burning + building, + their + Strength + indexed on + the UE Chart + would be + compared to + the + estimated + weight of + the tower + and the + maximum + throwing + distance + could be + calculated. + Because of + the scope of + the tower + and the + target, + small + amounts of + error in the + throw would + be forgiven + (using both + scatter and + 'area of + effect' + mechanics).[/list:u]How + is a + Gamemaster + + different in + Mechanical + play + ? + + You + may + have + noticed + that + once + Mechanical + play + + gets + going + it + quickly + becomes + impossible + to + tell + 'who + started + it.' + The + only + problem + this + has + caused + had to + do + with + the + application + of + superhuman + speed + in our + superhero + mechanics. + The + solution + was to + have a + fair + number + of the + additional + actions + performed + immediately + before + the + gamemaster + (mostly + because, + by and + large, + they + are + taking + the + turns + of + more + individual, + and + non-player, + characters). + Other + than + that, + there + are no + real, + practical + differences.[/list:u]What + if I + Want + to + Make + Up My + Own + Abilities? + + Scattershot + bases + every + ability + on + 5 + templates. + There + are + schedules + of + modifications + that + can + be + made + to + these + abilities, + but + those + modifications + are + rather + esoteric + and + are + kept + to + the + Advanced + Scattershot + mechanics + . + In + keeping + with + the + design + specifications + of + Scattershot, + these + templates + are + paired + with + the + five + elements + (almost + everything + happens + to + be, + but + that + has + more + to + do + with + Scattershot's + universal + metaphysic + that + I + can + cover + if + anyone + is + interested). + Earth + matches + the + template + of + affecting + the + physical + nature + of + an + object, + Water + has + the + template + of + movement, + location, + and + time + manipulation, + Air's + template + manipulates + the + energy + of + a + subject + (including + spiritual), + Fire + manipulates + structure + and + relativity + (this + includes + information), + and + finally + Ether + is + relative + to + the + unusual + abilities + that + affect + the + 'character' + of + a + subject + - + including + things + which + make + it + unique + or + unremarkable. + I + can + go + into + detail + if + necessary, + but + this + about + sums + it + up.[/list:u]I + hope + this + satisfies + everyone's + curiosity + over + Scattershot's + mechanics. + Feel + free + to + ask + for + clarifications, + I + am + planning + on + going + over + the + whole + series + in + better + detail + and + re-editing + almost + all + of + it. + + Maybe + I + can + spell + out + the + techniques + of + play + that + make + use + of + these + mechanics. + + ©2002 + Impswitch + and + Fang + Langford + (who + will + get + around + to + tightening + this + up + eventually, + especially + with + feedback) + + ¹ + Free + skills + are + actually + free + until + quantity + is + built + up + with + them. + A + bargain + at + 4 + (taken + at + listed + levels) + for + every + point, + and + the + first + 4 + are + Free! + After + you + 'pay' + for + them, + raising + them + is + normal + (1 + for + 1). + (Their + 'actual + value' + falls + below + the + easy + threshold + because + of + their + limited + applicability.) + + ² + A + character + may + have + a + specialization + in + a + Skill + by + simply + further + narrowing + what + it + affects. + This + compares + the + differences + in + Scopes + of + some + related + Skills. + For + example, + the + squad + level + engagement + skill³ + compares + to + military + hand-to-hand³ + in + the + same + fashion + as + an + M16 + skill + (an + unlisted + specialization) + would + compare + to + the + rifle + skill. + Such + specialization + makes + a + skill + one + rank + 'easier' + and + therefore + cheaper. + + There + has + been + a + great + deal + of + controversy + on + the + modeling + of + talent + in + relation + to + training. + In + Scattershot + Talent + in + a + skill + costs + the + same + as + Training, + it's + only + differentiated + by + the + character's + description + and + history. + This + is + because, + without + a + point + cut-off, + there + is + not + much + need + for + complicated + pricing + mechanics. + (These + costs + can + be + mixed + as + well.) + + ³ + I + need + a + new + word + for + this + one. + + * + Anyone + can + also + add + experience + dice + to + this + roll. + Experince + dice + are + six-sided + and + given + out + as + rewards + for + play + that + increases + the + enjoyment + of + the + game. + They + are + awarded + at + the + end + of + a + session + + (by + gamemaster + + choice, + group + vote, + or + other + technique + as + desired) + or + they + are + given + 'on + the + spot' + where + and + when + any + participant + feels + that + someone + has + made + a + significant + contribution + to + their + (or + everyone's) + play + (when + other + than + the + gamemaster, + we + are + considering + if + a + 'bowl + of + dice' + is + appropriate + or + if + players + should + use + only + their + own + on + the + chance + that + the + gamemaster + will + not + agree + and + refund + them + immediately). + + Experience + dice + are + also + the + character + development + mechanic. + When + a + player + wishes + to + add + points + to + their + character + they + select + a + number + of + experience + dice + to + 'roll + for + points.' + The + target + number + for + 1 + point + is + 6, + for + two + it + is + 10, + 3 + is + 14, + and + 4 + is + 18 + (and + so + on + by + increments + of + 4 + per + point). + All + the + 'wagered' + experience + dice + are + rolled + at + once + and + added + together + and + then + compared + to + the + target + numbers. + + As + I + explained + in + this + thread + , + the + critical + juncture + number + and + the + 'looseness' + of + the + supply + of + experience + dice + work + together + to + Transition + Scattershot + towards + more + Narrativist + play + (when + Critical + Juncture + is + low + and + Experience + Dice + are + plentiful) + or + towards + Gamist + play + (when + Critical + Juncture + is + high + and + Experience + Dice + are + scarce). + You'll + note + that + in + character + development, + often + regarded + as + a + Gamist + mechanic, + Experience + Dice + become + more + valuable + because + of + scarcity. + + Logged + +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +Fang Langford is formerly the creator of the Scattershot Role-Playing +Game System. This project has been permanently suspended. If you have +any questions regarding the implementation of it or anything else, he +can be reached at ripjack@mad.scientist.com + + +*Le Joueur * +Member + +Posts: 1363 + + +View Profile + WWW + + + +*Finally Editted - Whoops +* +« *Reply #1 on:* January 24, 2002, 03:05:15 PM » + + +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +Well, I finally got around to editting the beast. + +And I found a whole section missing. The 'rules of engagement' are now +in place and make the following-action stuff look a little more worthwhile. + +Thanks for the patience. + +Fang Langford + Logged + +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +Fang Langford is formerly the creator of the Scattershot Role-Playing +Game System. This project has been permanently suspended. If you have +any questions regarding the implementation of it or anything else, he +can be reached at ripjack@mad.scientist.com + + +*contracycle +* +Member + +Posts: 2392 + + +View Profile + + + +*Part V: Peeling Back the Layers - The Real Deal +* +« *Reply #2 on:* January 25, 2002, 03:26:46 AM » + + +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +Say Fang, you've never worked for Last Unicorn games, have you ;) + Logged + +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +Impeach the bomber boys: +www.impeachblair.org +www.impeachbush.org + +"He who loves practice without theory is like the sailor who boards ship +without a rudder and compass and never knows where he may cast." +- Leonardo da Vinci + +*Le Joueur * +Member + +Posts: 1363 + + +View Profile + WWW + + + +*Last Unicorn Games? +* +« *Reply #3 on:* January 25, 2002, 06:29:24 AM » + + +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +Quote from: contracycle +Say Fang, you've never worked for Last Unicorn games, have you ;) + +No. Why? (He said with much confusion.) + +Fang Langford + Logged + +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +Fang Langford is formerly the creator of the Scattershot Role-Playing +Game System. This project has been permanently suspended. If you have +any questions regarding the implementation of it or anything else, he +can be reached at ripjack@mad.scientist.com + + +*contracycle +* +Member + +Posts: 2392 + + +View Profile + + + +*Part V: Peeling Back the Layers - The Real Deal +* +« *Reply #4 on:* January 25, 2002, 06:40:20 AM » + + +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +They're (in)famous for reinventing terminology to the point of +obscurantism. I was just struck by how many terms you have to get to +follow the description. + Logged + +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +Impeach the bomber boys: +www.impeachblair.org +www.impeachbush.org + +"He who loves practice without theory is like the sailor who boards ship +without a rudder and compass and never knows where he may cast." +- Leonardo da Vinci + +*RobMuadib * +Member + +Posts: 230 + + + +View Profile + WWW + + + +*[SCATTERSHOT:V] Peeling Back the Layers, The Actual Mechanix +* +« *Reply #5 on:* January 25, 2002, 09:32:14 AM » + + +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +Quote from: Le Joueur + +So at last we come to the mechanics. This is where we formalize the +'flow of play' in support of emotionally engaging contextual thinking +. + We are going to examine primarily the Advanced Scattershot mechanics + +across the whole range of 'Densities' from General to Mechanical + +play. We're going to fully formalize the process of passing who the +Speaker + is +during scenes + +within a game into the communal language + and +mechanics of Scattershot. + + +Well, I thought I would chime in here a bit, partially as a response to +contracyles post below. Specifically, on the idea of the steeper +learning curve associated with a game that fully quantifies it's game +language, and largely makes it a requirement to learn. + +First, all RPGs are in effect Formal Languages, in the way that computer +programming languages are. These formal languages exist to enable us to +engage in the three elements of Story, Game, and Role. + +Now, most games that have been written so far, leave large amounts of +this formal language implicit, or reserve it's use to certain empowered +players. + +Now, in the first case, you lose the easy means to express and utilize +the elements of the formal language that are assumed/implicit, those +creating a system with which the players largely give short shrift to +those elements Story/Game/Role which are left implicit. In the second, +you create a class of highly empowered players, who because they have +access to these Guide mechanics, have greater control over the +experience of the players that don't. + +Thus, I believe that making the mechanics explicit and "democratizing" +them leads to the ability for all players to be empowered and thus have +greater ability to engage the elements of Story/Game/Role they find most +compelling. + +(This is newish thinking on my part that has developed from my X-styles +and XXX RPG theory thread in the GNS discussion forum) + +Quote from: Le Joueur + +At its simplest level, the Scattershot mechanic is little more than a +resolution system + +with trimmings. Every ability (or quality of any entity within a +Scattershot game) is described by a Rating. Before I talk about using +these Ratings, I think I should describe 'how to get them.' + + +again I like this thinking, as it mirrors the methodology I am using in +design of my own game. That getting the players to learn to use game +language, and make that language "abstractionist" and high-level, so it +is powerful and easy to use, is GOOD. Powerful Formalized Game Language +GOOD! + + +Quote from: Le Joueur + +Fat Points + + Scattershot's point-based system requires that you 'buy' abilities + using character points, during character generation or evolution, + in order to take full advantage of them. Since simplicity is one + of the design specifications and it is a point-based system, we + quickly decided that to raise any rating 1 point would cost 1 + point. This makes Scattershot's points 'worth more' than most + games (by a factor of 3, 5, or in some cases 10 or higher). + + Some have suggested that this lacks a limit on the 'return on + investments.' This is only an illusion. Scattershot's die + mechanic (more in just a bit) creates a sigmoid graph (which means + more and more points give less and less improvement in probability + terms). Also, when a player has more points to 'spend' there are + obviously more choices to make (Scattershot will have rather long + 'laundry' lists of abilities to choose from - for players who + aren't interested in lists, it's not hard to make up abilities + instead of searching for them, the lists are mostly to help + players get inspired); this means that most of the time, these + points will tend to get 'spread out' more. + + The second part of having a point-based system we do differently + is that there are no point cut-offs. Instead of saying, "you only + have 30 points to spend," we point out that more points means a + character has a higher or broader efficacy in general. + Concentrations of points in a single ability means that a + character is expected to excel at (or be somewhat defined by) that + ability (like a gunfighter - who /should/ have a high 'quickdraw' + skill). Based on this quality, the rest of the group can form a + quick understanding of 'how able' a character is and can play + accordingly. + + + +One problem I have on this thinking, while true for normal abilities that +define an ability to succeed at something, there is a diminished return +for each greater investment. But what about abilities such as super +powers and such, ones which are applications of a UE derived Value. + +Since they are based on a Geometric progression. Having unlimited points +to spend on the "effect" portion means a player could create a character +that can destroy planets and all while someone else might have just made +batman. How do you adress this, Self-established limits? + +This is interesting to me, since I plan to use a scaled triangular +progression for establishing Trait Score costs. Where a triangular +progression means it costs you a number of points equal to the sum of +the values up and including the Score being purchased - i.e. a Score of +1 costs 1, a Score of 2 (1+2), 3, a Score of 3 costs (1+2+3), 6, Score +of 4 costs (1+2+3+4), 10, a score of 5 costs (1+2+3+4+5), 15, etc. + +This doesn't result in a shortchange in either Basis Traits or Proficiency, +despite the diminishing returns in your chance of Binary Success, as +higher Trait Scores offer a geometric increase in related Values, and a +Linear increase in scaled ability. For Proficiency, although your Binary +Success is subject to diminishing returns, the magnitudes of your +Success scale linearly. (and thus require a geometrically increasing +cost to achieve.) + +This occurs because of the way I determine Success/Effect ratings. Which +I will show when I post an examination of my mechanics, which I plan to +do later today. + + +Quote from: Le Joueur + +What Do You Do with These Ratings? + + When an Instantaneous, Invoked + + Rating is 'checked³' for an Immediate action + + by an Individual + , + after determining the necessary rating, two ten-sided dice are + rolled and their sum* is subtracted from this rating (so rolling + lower is better). The difference is called a MIB (short for + Made-It-By) number. Rolling higher than the Rating is a failure + or MIB (Missed-It-By) number; a roll equal to the rating has 'just + made it.' There are many different types of Modifiers that can be + applied to this roll. Beyond the familiar range, size, and + opportunity modifiers you would expect, there can also be + Residual, Scope, and Duration + + modifiers when the available ability is not a perfect match for + the needed action. + + + +I like this idea of allowing of success out of failure. Seems like a +good mechanic, especially when trying to emphasize story elements. This +is somewhat novel approach. I have seen modifiers applied for +hurrying/Taking extra time on an Act, but this is first I've really seen +anyone use a reverse application of it. Pretty slick. + +My only caveat would to be label "optional" in that, it that it could +cause short shrift to Roleist elements for people who want to emphasize +it. Hardcore "Sim" play being the classic example, and possibly Gameist +play as well. Imagine the following exchange. + +"Hah, you failed, prepare to die dewd." +"Wait!, , + Scattershot formalizes the 'flow of play,' especially at times of + high emotion + . + Just like the normal tendency to formalize play during cacophony + , + Scattershot switches to a rigid play-order during Mechanical play + . + A lot of game systems use complicated mechanics to create some + kind of turn order related to the efficacy of combat-skilled + characters. For as much trouble as I have seen this cause, it + never seems to be a reasonable return for such wargame inspired + mechanics. + + In many cases during Specific play + + a roll might Miss-It-By just a point or two. After the MIB + number is calculated, the character's player may opt to 'Buy + a Success' by changing one of the parameters of the attempt + /after the fact/. Let's say an auto mechanic Missed-It-By 1 + (often just MIB -1), his player can turn this failure into a + success by changing the amount of time it took, or by + requiring more parts and thus cost (or both if they + Missed-It-By 2). A 'bought' success is never higher than + 'just making it.' In Mechanical play + , + like melee, if a player needs to 'Buy a Success' they can do + things like give ground, yield Combat Advantage, dive for + cover, or something more descriptive like going down on one + knee as long as the group seems receptive to the + complication it creates. + + + +I am going to agree to disagree with you, well done initiative systems, +provide a nice modeling of factors resulting in very tense involved +Gameist gameplay. + +The best example of such being the Semi-simultaneous action count system +of the Phoenix Command Small Arms system. (an idea I am ripping off for +my game, but only for the Tactical Combat rules, :)) +Where moving into the open at the wrong time, or being caught +flat-footed out of cover has obvious and crushing results. And catching +some poor bastard looking around being uncatious with a short burst, as +you wait in a Kneeling firing stance around solid cover, is SO satisfying! + +(what can I say, I like to play FPS on the computer too. Oh yeah, that +reminds me of one of my classic mantras, someone needs to convert +Phoenix command to a computer moderated version that would be sweet!) + +Quote from: Le Joueur + +If you can 'Buy a Success,' why not be able to 'Sell a Success?' The +mechanic for when you 'Sell a Success' is called the /±5 mechanic/. To +take longer, you find the duration on the UE Chart + and +then count up or down 5 points. This way you can /add or subtract/ to +the amount affected; 'extra' points of success can also be 'spent' on +Residual modifiers. You can likewise 'buy' a point of Combat Advantage +(which is of course just another form of Residual modifier anyway). + [/list:u] + + +Again, I like this, it's a clever reverse application of the handiness +of a UE Scale type deal. Also one I haven't seen before, as I mentioned +above. +Also, such Success Shifting can be a good tool to support Storyist goals. +Which should gain you brownie points around here:) + +My only point would be to express it's Storyist leanings, or not, as Ron +mentioned in a different thread, your game nicely features lots of +Storyist supporting mechanics. + +Quote from: Le Joueur + +Critical Junctures + + In setting up a game, the participants need to fix how 'epic' or + 'over the top' they want to play. The primary way this is done is + by adjusting the Critical Juncture Threshold. The core suggested + threshold is 7. This means whenever any modified MIB number is 7 + or higher, the player of the character this 'goes against' is + compelled to create a description of not only what has happened + but must also indicate how this forms a turning point for their + character. (I especially like the title character's first + encounter with the Sheriff of Nottingham, in Robin Hood: Prince of + Thieves. Robin clearly scores a /Telling Blow/ - matching or + exceeding the Critical Juncture Threshold of the game. The + Sheriff's player, rather than taking a horrible wound, describes a + fatal attack on his vanity, taking on a new Disadvantage.) + + Likewise, if a player rolls a Missed-It-By number 7 or more points + above the modified Rating used, they are also compelled to + describe what kind of fantastic mistake occurs. This + /Catastrophic Failure/ must also be something of a 'turning + point.' In contested rolls, a Telling Blow is only described when + the RMIB /continues/ to exceeds the Critical Juncture Threshold + after being calculated. The Critical Juncture Threshold also + controls a number of other features in the game. For example, the + total of the Critical Juncture number and Epic Value³ (which + limits the maximum length of Flurries of Action) must be ten or + less (id est, in a game where the Critical Juncture is 6, then + flurries may not exceed 4 in a row). This keeps all the 'epic' + qualities in line for a single game.[/list:u] + + + +Again, I really like these ideas, reminds me of some of the Reality +Rules I have in my game, whereby the outrageouness of results is tied to +the "Reality" being simulated. Though in my take it is in support of +Roleist, rather than Storyist goals. + +Like I mentioned in earlier threads, I am finding it interesting how we +have hit upon similar design metholodigies, but where your design is +heavier on Storyist supporting mechanics, mine is heavier on Roleist +supporting mechanics. + +Either way, both are helping me to develop my thinking on my new XXX rpg +theory stuff. + +Quote from: Le Joueur + +/In Case I Forgot to Mention:/ + + Uses of Types in Mechanical play + : + most abilities used will be Invoked + + Ratings, what these affect is often limited by Magnitude + + Ratings. 'What gets affected' will frequently be a Resource + + Rating. + + + +Oh, I am reminded of something in Contracycles post regarding your +terminology. Invoked is probably overly-obfuscated. In terms of previous +design, Acting/Opposing or Action/Reaction might be a clearer term. +Invoked is not as intuitive and heavier on the formal side in your +Formal Language. Magnitude is pretty good, as it is fairly intuitive. + +Quote from: Le Joueur + +For example, if your character /punches/ mine (and they don't have a +related melee skill), they will generate a MIB number based on an +Invoked use of their Agility Stat. If they have an unusually high +Strength, in its Magnitude role, the Multiplier facet of the UE Chart +will be indexed and that will multiply the RMIB. This will be the +/basic/ damage which unless modified is taken from my Hit Points in +their Resource role. Likewise, if your character wanted to throw a +water tower on a burning building, their Strength indexed on the UE +Chart would be compared to the estimated weight of the tower and the +maximum throwing distance could be calculated. Because of the scope of +the tower and the target, small amounts of error in the throw would be +forgiven (using both scatter and 'area of effect' mechanics).[/list:u] + + +I am a big proponent of the niftiness of the use of a Value Scale, it +provides lots of concrete values and detail, while still being fairly +high-level and abstracted enough to use easily. As opposed to lots of +gurps like calcuation of specific values with lots of multiplication and +no easy way to convert between results and such. + +Quote from: Le Joueur + + You may have noticed that once Mechanical play + + gets going it quickly becomes impossible to tell 'who started it.' + The only problem this has caused had to do with the application + of superhuman speed in our superhero mechanics. The solution was + to have a fair number of the additional actions performed + immediately before the gamemaster (mostly because, by and large, + they are taking the turns of more individual, and non-player, + characters). Other than that, there are no real, practical + differences.[/list:u] + + + +One case where effective initiative mechanics do make a useful +apperance, though a very limited case. Again, given the Storyist +leanings of your system that I see, sounds pretty good. + + +Quote from: Le Joueur + +What if I Want to Make Up My Own Abilities? + + Scattershot bases every ability on 5 templates. There are + schedules of modifications that can be made to these abilities, + but those modifications are rather esoteric and are kept to the + Advanced Scattershot mechanics + . + In keeping with the design specifications of Scattershot, these + templates are paired with the five elements (almost everything + happens to be, but that has more to do with Scattershot's + universal metaphysic that I can cover if anyone is interested). + Earth matches the template of affecting the physical nature of an + object, Water has the template of movement, location, and time + manipulation, Air's template manipulates the energy of a subject + (including spiritual), Fire manipulates structure and relativity + (this includes information), and finally Ether is relative to the + unusual abilities that affect the 'character' of a subject - + including things which make it unique or unremarkable. I can go + into detail if necessary, but this about sums it up.[/list:u]I + hope this satisfies everyone's curiosity over Scattershot's + mechanics. Feel free to ask for clarifications, I am planning on + going over the whole series in better detail and re-editing almost + all of it. + + + +This sounds pretty interesting, and again follows some of the stuff I +have been doing in my design, which is focused on getting the players to use +the Design Architectures to build worlds in its universe, The Million +Worlds (TM) + + +Quote from: Le Joueur + +² A character may have a specialization in a Skill by simply further +narrowing what it affects. This compares the differences in Scopes of +some related Skills. For example, the squad level engagement skill³ +compares to military hand-to-hand³ in the same fashion as an M16 skill +(an unlisted specialization) would compare to the rifle skill. Such +specialization makes a skill one rank 'easier' and therefore cheaper. + + +A good way to make skill use simple while still allowing for detail. I +go significantly further by using a Cumulative Skill Tree where +Proficiency is +determined from the sum of one of each of the character's relevant +Skills,Specialties, and Familiarities. + +as for names, the military Hand-to-Hand is covered in army field manual +FM21-150 Combatives. Perhaps simply Close Combat (squad) and Close +Combat (individual). + + +Quote from: Le Joueur + +There has been a great deal of controversy on the modeling of talent in +relation to training. In Scattershot Talent in a skill costs the same +as Training, it's only differentiated by the character's description and +history. This is because, without a point cut-off, there is not much +need for complicated pricing mechanics. (These costs can be mixed as well.) + + I will discuss this more when I post a summary of my Outcome Test +mechanic for review. + +Quote from: Le Joueur + +³ I need a new word for this one. (Check) + +Hmm, instead of contested Check, how about simply calling it a +Challenge, (Since it is effectively the default way your resolve +actions), and call the limited case of static uses a Simple Challenge. + +For instance, when a instaneous [Action] Rating is Challenged, you make +a Challenge roll by rolling 2d10 and comparing the your MIB # to the +Challenge roll of your Opponent ... etc, Or, in the case of a Simple +Challenge of a Rating, you make a Challenge Roll, modifying the Rating +for difficulty. Your MIB from the Challenge of your Effective Rating is used +directly to determine your RMIB, ... etc. + + +Quote from: Le Joueur + +* Anyone can also add experience dice to this roll. Experince dice are +six-sided and given out as rewards for play that increases the enjoyment +of the game. They are awarded at the end of a session + (by +gamemaster + +choice, group vote, or other technique as desired) or they are given 'on +the spot' where and when any participant feels that someone has made a +significant contribution to their (or everyone's) play (when other than +the gamemaster, we are considering if a 'bowl of dice' is appropriate or +if players should use only their own on the chance that the gamemaster +will not agree and refund them immediately). + +Experience dice are also the character development mechanic. When a +player wishes to add points to their character they select a number of +experience dice to 'roll for points.' The target number for 1 point is +6, for two it is 10, 3 is 14, and 4 is 18 (and so on by increments of 4 +per point). All the 'wagered' experience dice are rolled at once and +added together and then compared to the target numbers. + +As I explained in this thread +, the +critical juncture number and the 'looseness' of the supply of experience +dice work together to Transition Scattershot towards more Narrativist +play (when Critical Juncture is low and Experience Dice are plentiful) +or towards Gamist play (when Critical Juncture is high and Experience +Dice are scarce). You'll note that in character development, often +regarded as a Gamist mechanic, Experience Dice become more valuable +because of scarcity. + + +I like this tailoring methodolgy you have set-up, and I see why Ron +found your game interesting in terms of the Transitional effects of +being able to tune towards Storyist or Gamist roles. + +Anyway, that should be enough to keep you reading for a while, for my +next trick I will post a summary of my mechanics and discuss how they +represent more Roleist game language. + Logged + +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +Rob Muadib -- Kwisatz Haderach Of Wild Muse Games +kwisatzhaderach@wildmusegames.com + -- +"But How Can This Be? For He Is the Kwisatz Haderach!" --Alyia - Dune +(The Movie - 1980) + +*Rob* +Guest + + +Email + + +*[SCATTERSHOT:V] Peeling Back the Layers, The Actual Mechanix +* +« *Reply #6 on:* January 28, 2002, 05:48:15 AM » + + +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +Quote from: RobMuadib + +Where moving into the open at the wrong time, or being caught +flat-footed out of cover has obvious and crushing results. And catching +some poor bastard looking around being uncatious with a short burst, as +you wait in a Kneeling firing stance around solid cover, is SO satisfying! + + +I know, I got two in a row like that in CountrStrike over the weekend. +;) Well actually I was the short arm on an L-shaped ambush. + +Quote + +(what can I say, I like to play FPS on the computer too. Oh yeah, that +reminds me of one of my classic mantras, someone needs to convert +Phoenix command to a computer moderated version that would be sweet!) + + +Well, if you've not tried CS, you should. + +We now return you to your regularly scheduled Scattershot thread. + Logged + +*contracycle +* +Member + +Posts: 2392 + + +View Profile + + + +*Part V: Peeling Back the Layers - The Real Deal +* +« *Reply #7 on:* January 28, 2002, 05:51:24 AM » + + +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +Weird, thats my post above. Hmm. + Logged + +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +Impeach the bomber boys: +www.impeachblair.org +www.impeachbush.org + +"He who loves practice without theory is like the sailor who boards ship +without a rudder and compass and never knows where he may cast." +- Leonardo da Vinci + +*Le Joueur * +Member + +Posts: 1363 + + +View Profile + WWW + + + +*[SCATTERSHOT:V] Peeling Back the Layers, The Actual Mechanix +* +« *Reply #8 on:* February 01, 2002, 08:16:02 PM » + + +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +Quote from: RobMuadib +One problem I have on this thinking, while true for normal abilities +that define an ability to succeed at something, there is a diminished +return for each greater investment. But what about abilities such as +super powers and such, ones which are applications of a UE derived Value. + +Since they are based on a Geometric progression. Having unlimited points +to spend on the "effect" portion means a player could create a character +that can destroy planets and all while someone else might have just made +batman. How do you address this, Self-established limits? + +I know the I-V stuff is terribly laden with designer notes, so I can +understand what's happening here. You're confusing the ability Rating +with the effect's Magnitude. + +This was one of the earliest compromises we made to mathematics, you +need two numbers to model enough situations for our satisfaction. It +didn't follow that you'd be better and better at doing something as you +became more powerful. Where would you model people who had fantastic +power but lousy control or vice versa? That's why almost all Ratings +have a Magnitude (for skills the Magnitude is 'hidden' by having each +skill define its own parameters). Superpower, magic, and et cetera are +linked to the Power Stat. The only Ratings that do not have Magnitudes +are the Stats themselves (and actually, in most cases, they function /as +their own/ Magnitudes - and this is the only case of that). + +What does that mean? Well because of the sigmoid graph of probabilities +associated with a 'this number or less' roll of dice, the more points +you spend, the less return there is. For example; if you have an +Invoked Rating of 15, the chances of succeeding on an unmodified *MIB* +roll is 85% (god, I love calculating with 2 ten-siders). Spend a point +(going up to 16) and that becomes 90%. If it were linear, another point +would get you 5% more, but it doesn''t. (17 is 94%, 18 is 97%, and 19 +is 99%.) This is diminishing return. + +With Magnitude Ratings, it works geometrically. Weight on the UE Chart +can be calculated (if you don't like charts) at 3 times the Rating +squared in pounds. For a Magnitude Rating of 40 (40 x 40 x 3), that +would be 4,800 pounds, just under 2½ tons. Adding 10 points makes it +7,500 pounds, a 56% increase. Adding 10 more is 10,800 pounds, another +69% (compared to the original). + +As you can see, turning the Magnitude up to the point where planets get +destroyed becomes both cost prohibitive, and bloody obvious. As I +described in another thread, what follows this part of character +creation is more-or-less negotiations on the part of the players to +reach an idea of what kind of game they all want to take part in. I +will be formalizing that exact process, when I /find those damn notes!/ + It isn't precisely about establishing limits, it has to do with shared +expectations. + +Quote from: RobMuadib +This doesn't result in a shortchange in either Basis Traits or +Proficiency, despite the diminishing returns in your chance of Binary +Success, as higher Trait Scores offer a geometric increase in related +Values, and a Linear increase in scaled ability. For Proficiency, +although your Binary Success is subject to diminishing returns, the +magnitudes of your Success scale linearly. (and thus require a +geometrically increasing cost to achieve.) + +We took the opposite approach (if I am reading this correctly). Our +'proficiency' scales with diminishing returns (see above), and our +magnitudes scale geometrically. The UE Chart is rarely about the +magnitude of success and more about the magnitude of success attempted. + Strength doesn't even require a roll unless you're doing something +'chancy,' you simply are able to lift Strength squared times 3 pounds. + +The only time success is scaled by the UE Chart is for things like +attacks; an attack superpower 'powered' by a Power of 40 has a +'multiplier' of 16; after the *RMIB* is determined you multiply it by 16 +(so an *RMIB* of 4 nets 64 points of basic damage). The multiplier is +static (and in a game with a Critical Juncture number of 5, you would +only need to note these values to avoid in-play calculation: 16, 32, 48, +and 64, because anything higher would be a Telling Blow). + +Quote from: RobMuadib +I like this idea of allowing of success out of failure. Seems like a +good mechanic, especially when trying to emphasize story elements. This +is somewhat novel approach. I have seen modifiers applied for +hurrying/Taking extra time on an Act, but this is first I've really seen +anyone use a reverse application of it. Pretty slick. + +My only caveat would to be label "optional" in that, it that it could +cause short shrift to Roleist elements for people who want to emphasize +it. Hardcore "Sim" play being the classic example, and possibly Gameist +play as well. Imagine the following exchange. + +"Hah, you failed, prepare to die dewd." +"Wait!, + +*Pages:* [*1*] Print + + +« previous + +next » + + +Jump to: + + +Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP + The Forge | Powered by SMF 1.0.5 +. +© 2001-2005, Lewis Media . All Rights Reserved. +*Oxygen* design by Bloc Valid XHTML 1.0! + Valid CSS! + +