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35 | | |-+ *Get Emotional! |
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36 <http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=457.0>* « previous |
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40 *Pages:* [*1*] Print |
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41 <http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=457.0> |
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42 |
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43 Author Topic: Get Emotional! (Read 942 times) |
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44 |
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45 *Le Joueur <http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=73>* |
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46 Member |
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48 Posts: 1363 |
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53 <http://www.scattershotgames.com> |
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54 |
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55 <http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=457.msg4001#msg4001> |
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56 *Get Emotional! |
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57 <http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=457.msg4001#msg4001>* |
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58 « * on:* August 10, 2001, 02:09:00 PM » |
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59 |
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60 |
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61 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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62 This is what I understand. |
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63 |
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64 Context |
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65 |
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66 I think role-playing gaming is /thinking within the context of the |
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67 narrative/; nothing more is necessary. Anything that fails to have that |
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68 does not appear to be gaming. While some things outside of gaming |
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69 elicit contextual thinking, nothing that /is/ gaming _fails_ to do so. |
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70 |
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71 Let me illustrate with what I call the ?behind the bar? effect; let?s |
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72 say you?re playing a game set in a bar described with patrons, tables |
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73 and their contents, and let?s also say a fight has broken out. This |
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74 could easily be a card game, a war game, /or even a role-playing game/, |
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75 there?s no way to tell at this point. |
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76 |
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77 What makes it a role-playing game? The instant you decide that a |
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78 character goes /behind the bar/ and gets something. It doesn?t matter |
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79 what, as long as the player is thinking about what /ought/ to be back |
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80 there, they are working within the context of the bar and the fight /and |
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81 the role-playing game/. |
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82 |
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83 Emotional Investment |
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84 |
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85 If contextual thinking is the ?what? of gaming, then here is the ?why:? |
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86 I believe that one plays role-playing games only for the emotional value |
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87 they have for that player. Not limited to simply enjoyment, gaming can |
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88 evoke intrigue, curiosity, or virtually any other emotion, but I?ll just |
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89 refer to the whole package as emotional investment. This is a bit of a |
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90 simplification, but I think not an unclear one. |
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91 |
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92 What is gained through this emotional involvement? I think impact and |
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93 payoff are some of the things that result from ?feeling? involved in the |
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94 narrative. This is not about good or bad narratives, only the dividends |
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95 of the emotional investment. I say that the problems with any game are |
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96 those that impede the emotional payoff the way inconsistency or loss of |
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97 engagement do (to list a couple of examples). |
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98 |
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99 For an example, all game settings I have seen have dynamic backgrounds |
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100 or grand conflicts. When involved, I believe they heighten the return |
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101 on a player?s emotional investment. |
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102 |
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103 The Scattershot Model: |
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104 |
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105 Here are our two main frames of reference, personal (things that exist |
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106 only at the character level) and the game (everything that includes the |
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107 character in it). |
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108 |
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109 Personal Level |
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110 |
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111 The most basic ?contact point? of play involves what you are playing |
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112 (even when not the traditional player character). At this level the |
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113 overall game is of reduced importance because it only serves as the |
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114 vehicle for the personal identification substance within it. |
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115 |
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116 This is the reason character generation can be so important in many |
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117 systems. The player character is the entity in the game that you will |
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118 have the most affinity with. The sophistication and detail of the |
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119 character creation mechanics of a game system reflect the degree and |
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120 specificity of emotional investment in things created with them. When |
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121 you ?make them work for it,? the player is likely to care more about |
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122 their character. |
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123 |
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124 The most basic component of the personal level of emotional investment |
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125 is in its _intrinsic value_. In this frame of reference, what matters |
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126 is what goes on /for/ the character. |
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127 |
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128 This is ?where it all happens? at the most personal level and this can |
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129 lead to varying levels of immersion, such as thinking or feeling /as/ |
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130 the character. It can also be about watching what a game does to one?s |
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131 character from a personal, yet external point of view. The value stems |
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132 from what goes on ?inside? the character or at their level. |
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133 |
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134 The game becomes a vehicle for the expression of value of the character |
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135 to the player. The focus is on how the game affects the character and |
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136 by extension, the player. |
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137 |
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138 While still being personal, one can place more emotional investment in |
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139 the extrinsic value of their character. Finding value in the things the |
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140 character can do or what the player can do with the character. |
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141 Measuring characters against one and another. This can include a |
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142 certain amount of self-consciousness in the activity too. |
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143 |
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144 The character can become a tool for the player, what they /do/ to the |
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145 game is the source of value. This is about first-person value based on |
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146 what you can do as opposed to who you are. |
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147 |
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148 This is also about how the player affects the game, the rush of power |
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149 over the game in the most immediate and visceral fashion. Consistency |
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150 can become an issue of high value because without it, the extrinsic |
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151 personal value can appear illusory. |
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152 |
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153 Game Level |
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154 |
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155 What exactly is ?game level?? Not a just the setting, genre, or |
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156 narrative ? it is a living entity consisting of this and more, it is the |
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157 whole, shared experience ranging from (but not limited to) the game |
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158 system all the way out to the retelling of the narrative and all points |
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159 in between. |
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160 |
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161 Much like the personal frame, the most immediate form of gratification |
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162 stems from a game?s intrinsic value, of what makes play so fun. Whether |
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163 it is the setting, play within the resolution system, or something else, |
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164 the value is within the game itself. |
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165 |
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166 What the character does, as a part of the game, is where the emotional |
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167 pay-off is. Unusual situations, new experiences, discovery, these are |
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168 reflected in the intrinsic value of a game. The character becomes a |
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169 window to what the game has to offer. |
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170 |
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171 This may seem to place central value in the experiential world of the |
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172 game, but then that would mean that the world is all there is to the |
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173 game. It isn?t. There?s the tone, flavor, and atmosphere; there?s the |
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174 feeling of a game hard-played, the feeling of let down after the fact, |
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175 and more; this all stems from finding the intrinsic value of the game. |
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176 |
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177 Above this is whatever the extrinsic value a game may have. Usually |
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178 this also includes a fair amount of self-awareness. Not only does play |
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179 ?know that its just a game,? but it is also willing to ?work with it? on |
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180 that level. |
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181 |
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182 This often includes an external perspective of the game. Many literary |
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183 and theatrical devices are used but only for the effect of enhancing |
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184 emotional impact of the narrative. Many lofty things are often ascribed |
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185 to this type of play and it can be a heady experience after spending a |
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186 lot of time restricted to the personal extrinsic level by a strict |
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187 division of powers. |
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188 |
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189 Many newer games invite the players to take a larger part in, if not |
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190 partial ownership, of the game. One hidden problem this poses is the |
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191 loss of connection with primary point of contact, their character. It |
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192 scores well in terms of getting players to care for more than their |
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193 character alone, but many times the value of the character can get lost |
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194 in the new vistas. And when the players cease to think in the context |
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195 of their characters, in context of the game, it stops being role-playing |
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196 and becomes ?writing.? |
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197 |
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198 Another thing this perspective includes is comparisons of systems and |
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199 genres /between/ games. When one game tries to ?out do? another in any |
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200 fashion, this is the frame that is being applied. Convention tournament |
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201 games have a lot of this too, as do a lot of demos. |
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202 |
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203 Explaining All This in Terms of the GNS Model |
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204 |
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205 Allow me to draw some parallels to the GNS model. Superficially, if you |
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206 generalize this scheme it comes out very like the GNS model (provided |
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207 immersion is split from Simulationism). |
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208 |
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209 The combination of immersion and Simulationism only works if the players |
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210 find value in both the intrinsic value of their character and the |
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211 intrinsic value of the game /simultaneously/. Since I do not believe |
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212 one can make a priority out of self and the world at the same time, I |
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213 fail to see how they can be clearly lumped together, one must take a |
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214 back seat. This is not to confuse a Simulationist world with |
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215 Simulationistic consistency, though. Most losses in consistency result |
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216 in failed emotional payoffs. |
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217 |
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218 From what I have read, I believe immersive players do not require as |
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219 much Simulationist detail in the game, so long as it still creates a |
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220 venue for their character in the absence. I /do/ see how one could |
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221 think of immersion as ?simulating? a character, but I do not think this |
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222 is what most people idealize when they use the word Simulationism, |
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223 especially when it does not seem like one can focus on simulating both |
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224 character and world simultaneously. |
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225 |
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226 These frames of reference also suggest a problem with one of the other |
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227 GNS comparisons. It seems to me when comparing Gamism to Narrativism, |
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228 it is like comparing oranges and IBMs. |
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229 |
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230 The comparison between Simulationism and Narrativism would be the |
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231 difference between the intrinsic and extrinsic value of what the game |
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232 evoked. (I think this would be like comparing apples and oranges.) |
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233 |
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234 The comparison of Gamism and Simulationism shows relation by subject. |
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235 The extrinsic value of a personal frame of reference has value based on |
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236 the game and the intrinsic value of a game obviously stems from itself, |
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237 making these values relative to the same thing, the game, only from |
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238 different perspectives, personal versus game. (This might be like |
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239 comparing Apples and IBMs.) |
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240 |
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241 Therefore comparing Gamism and Narrativism relates the extrinsic value |
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242 of the personal frame and the extrinsic value of the game. These, I |
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243 think, are unrelated. (This would therefore be like comparing oranges |
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244 and IBMs.) |
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245 |
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246 (I include these references to the GNS model only as a convenience to |
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247 those whose work is primarily with it. Consider it a starting point to |
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248 my explanation of the frames I use.) |
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249 |
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250 Fang Langford |
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251 Logged |
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252 |
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253 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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254 Fang Langford is formerly the creator of the Scattershot Role-Playing |
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255 Game System. This project has been permanently suspended. If you have |
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256 any questions regarding the implementation of it or anything else, he |
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257 can be reached at ripjack@mad.scientist.com |
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258 <mailto:ripjack@mad.scientist.com> |
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259 |
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260 *Ron Edwards |
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261 <http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9>* |
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262 Global Moderator |
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263 Member |
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264 * |
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270 <http://www.sorcerer-rpg.com> |
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271 |
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272 <http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=457.msg4003#msg4003> |
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273 *Get Emotional! |
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274 <http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=457.msg4003#msg4003>* |
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275 « *Reply #1 on:* August 10, 2001, 02:32:00 PM » |
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276 |
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277 |
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278 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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279 Fang, |
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280 |
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281 I think the emotional investment you describe is related, or even |
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282 identical, to what I called "imaginative commitment" earlier, when |
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283 discussing Exploration. |
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284 |
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285 To review: Exploration is the starting point or act for role-playing. |
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286 GNS represents applications/foci/goals for the act. |
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287 |
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288 This is not to undercut or refute any of your post, but rather to agree |
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289 with and reinforce it. |
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290 |
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291 Best, |
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292 Ron |
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293 Logged |
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294 |
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295 *Le Joueur <http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=73>* |
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296 Member |
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297 |
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298 Posts: 1363 |
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300 |
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301 View Profile |
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303 <http://www.scattershotgames.com> |
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304 |
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305 <http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=457.msg4007#msg4007> |
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306 *Get Emotional! |
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307 <http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=457.msg4007#msg4007>* |
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308 « *Reply #2 on:* August 10, 2001, 02:42:00 PM » |
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309 |
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310 |
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311 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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312 Quote |
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313 Ron Edwards wrote: |
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314 I think the emotional investment you describe is related, or even |
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315 identical, to what I called "imaginative commitment" earlier, when |
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316 discussing Exploration. |
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317 Quote |
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318 This is not to undercut or refute any of your post, but rather to agree |
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319 with and reinforce it. |
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320 |
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321 |
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322 Excellent, "imaginative commitment" was what go me started, thanks to |
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323 you. I just felt that a sense of ?committedness? was the emotion at the |
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324 root of character identification and emotional investment. And the |
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325 "imaginative" part was too vague on the contextual scheme of things. |
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326 |
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327 Fang Langford |
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328 |
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329 [ This Message was edited by: Le Joueur on 2001-08-11 08:56 ] |
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330 Logged |
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331 |
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332 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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333 Fang Langford is formerly the creator of the Scattershot Role-Playing |
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334 Game System. This project has been permanently suspended. If you have |
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335 any questions regarding the implementation of it or anything else, he |
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336 can be reached at ripjack@mad.scientist.com |
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337 <mailto:ripjack@mad.scientist.com> |
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338 |
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