references/elements.txt
author fabien
Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:31:23 -0400
branchecjdr
changeset 85 ee3a1f094c45
parent 68 be57f0035c67
permissions -rw-r--r--
[svn] r2075@freebird: fabien | 2006-06-19 14:29:56 -0400 Notes au sujet de la structure des scénarios.
Ignore whitespace changes - Everywhere: Within whitespace: At end of lines:
68
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
     1
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
     2
  Characterizing a Game's Rules
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
     3
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
     4
This is a response to this post by lumpley
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
     5
<http://www.septemberquestion.org/lumpley/anycomment.php?entry=156> (AKA
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
     6
Vincent). You should read at least the first few examples of it before
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
     7
reading this.
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
     8
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
     9
It's important, when analyzing something, to simplify it to its most
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    10
important elements, where that simplification doesn't discard anything
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    11
important. When just thinking about something, you should be careful not
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    12
to simplify too soon; work out the patterns, then simplify. I think
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    13
lumpley has simplified some things wrong, so I'm going to start over
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    14
with the un-simplified case and work down to something simpler.
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    15
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    16
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    17
      The Eight Elements
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    18
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    19
The way I figure it, the activity of game-playing can be reasonably
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    20
characterized by the interaction of eight kinds of things.
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    21
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    22
Starting from the die and proceeding clockwise, we have: mechanics tools
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    23
(die), quantifiable game state (figures), props (crown), players (smiley
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    24
faces), munchies (Dew), the fiction (cloud), the rules (book), and,
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    25
overseeing it all, the gamemaster (frowny wizard).
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    26
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    27
In more detail: mechanics tools are used for randomization and
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    28
resolving, e.g. dice, coin flips, possibly calculators, measuring
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    29
instruments at athletic events. Quantifiable game state is things like
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    30
hit points, locations of Monopoly tokens, cards in your hand. Props are
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    31
game-related elements that are in no way game-mechanical, like painted
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    32
figures used for atmosphere, or an audio soundtrack played in the
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    33
background by a gamemaster. The fiction is some set of things that are
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    34
true about the fictional world in which the game is taking place
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    35
(Wittgenstein: "the world is everything that is the case"). The rest are
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    36
self-explanatory. (This is not to say that all games need a gamemaster.
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    37
I am just avoiding oversimplifying too soon for games that do have one.)
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    38
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    39
Now, when we talk about interactions that occur over the course of a
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    40
game, any game, we can understand that those interactions are governed
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    41
by the rules. If Bob gets pissed off and punches out Gene, and the game
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    42
at hand doesn't involve players actually resorting to real-life
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    43
fisticuffs, then their activity is outside the game and shouldn't be
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    44
diagrammed on the chart. Any activity that takes place in the game is
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    45
going to be governed by the rules.
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    46
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    47
Let's take a sample rule for a monopoly-like game. "Roll a die and
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    48
advance your token that many squares on the board."
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    49
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    50
Each teal arrow is an individual interaction. Each blue arrow is a
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    51
"moderating" effect on an interaction. (It's hard to draw a three-way
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    52
interaction with a single arrow unless they happen to be in a line). So,
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    53
first, the player rolls the die (as moderated by the rules); then, the
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    54
result on the die indicates how to update the game state (move the
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    55
token), which is performed by the player, as moderated by the rules.
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    56
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    57
Now, a few things are clear. First, the player doesn't have to be the
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    58
one to move the token. Another player might move it instead if it
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    59
happens to be hard to reach for the first. The player doesn't actually
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    60
have any choice; so the fact that it's the player picking up and moving
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    61
the token is irrelevant. Second, as described earlier, /every/
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    62
interaction is going to be moderated by the rules (at least weakly), so
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    63
we're always going to have a moderated-by arrow from the rules; so
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    64
there's no reason to draw them. That leaves us with this simplified
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    65
drawing:
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    66
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    67
Note that this representation of an interaction is about as
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    68
/conceptually simple/ as lumpley's--it only has two arrows--but it has
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    69
more information, because we haven't oversimplified the participating
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    70
elements.
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    71
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    72
Now, you could argue that I should go ahead and simplify at least some
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    73
of the other elements away--that many of these icons are obviously
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    74
unnecessary to the game, e.g. the props and the munchies. Just to
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    75
confuse matters, here's a different kind of game, with rules-moderation
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    76
arrows omitted.
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    77
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    78
"If the player bounces the quarter into the cup, then the player can
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    79
require any other player to drink the cup." Here I've used lumpley's
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    80
notation of an arrow going through a middle item to indicate moderation:
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    81
the mechanics of whether the quarter (represented by the icon here) goes
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    82
into the cup or not are determined not by a random number generator, but
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    83
by the laws of physics. Again, I think it is overkill to indicate
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    84
moderation. Of course, this is a game best played in moderation.
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    85
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    86
Now, let's imagine a game that's GMed, and has rule #2 of lumpley's: "2.
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    87
Subtract the roll on the damage die from your character's hit points."
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    88
I'll omit moderation-by-the-rules arrows, of course.
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    89
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    90
Ok, so the player rolls the die (arrow from player to die). Of course,
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    91
the player does this under the watchful eye and guidance of the GM, so
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    92
we need a moderation arrow there. Then, the player updates their own hit
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    93
points on their character sheet, again under the watchful eye of the GM.
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    94
Guess what? Everything's under the watchful eye of the GM, so let's
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    95
screw those GM moderation arrows.
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    96
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    97
To be honest, I don't understand lumpley's arrows, so maybe lumpley
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    98
won't understand mine. Lumpley uses an arrow from the die ("tokens,
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
    99
things, props, representations") to the faces ("the interactions of the
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   100
player themselves") to indicate the rolling of the die. Why? No clue.
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   101
Maybe it should be three arrows: 1. the player rolls the die
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   102
(player->die). 2. the player reads the value of the die. (die->player).
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   103
3. the player change the value of the hit points. (player->die)
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   104
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   105
Of course, as I've pointed out, the reading of the value of the die and
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   106
updating of the hit point value by the player involves the player in an
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   107
entirely uninteresting way, so I don't think step #2 is interesting. But
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   108
my way of interpreting 2 & 3 combined is to draw from (on my chart) die
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   109
to figures; since lumpley combines mechanics tools and quantifiable
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   110
state into a single element, he'd have to draw an arrow from the die to
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   111
the die, which perhaps explains why he did it the way he did. Of course,
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   112
if you want to show that this die-to-die interaction is moderated by the
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   113
players by making it go through the players, you'll have a curving line
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   114
go from the die to the players and then back to the die; which is
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   115
basically the same as the three lines I proposed above.
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   116
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   117
Now, note that if the GM follows the same rule to handle an NPC, on my
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   118
chart I'd have to change the source of the first arrow. I don't need to
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   119
update the second arrow. I'm not distinguishing between state
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   120
represented physically on a character sheet and state kept entirely in
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   121
the GM's head.
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   122
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   123
Ok, here's a more complex lumpley rule: "5. If your character's opponent
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   124
tries to disarm your character, make a Hold Weapon check. If you fail,
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   125
your character is disarmed, and you thus suffer the unarmed penalty
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   126
until you retrieve your weapon."
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   127
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   128
Again, imagining a GM'd game, we have the following sequence. The GM
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   129
(pointy hat) decides that the the opponent tries to disarm (fictional
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   130
cloud). This state of the fiction requires that the player make a Hold
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   131
Weapon check (die roll). [Note that, in truth, the hold weapon check
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   132
involves various quantifiable state--character level or strength or
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   133
whatever, so perhaps the arrow here should be more subtle.] On a
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   134
failure, we imagine the character is disarmed in whatever manner
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   135
(non-quantifiable fictional cloud) and also in the quantifiable state
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   136
(figures).
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   137
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   138
Note that the GM-causing-the-fiction is something I added explicitly to
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   139
clarify. Note that it's misleading to draw an arrow from the fiction to
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   140
the player; really it should be that the fiction moderates the need for
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   141
the Hold Weapon check. But hang on for a moment; really, the GM chose to
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   142
put the NPC in the "state" of "trying to disarm this player character";
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   143
since there are some limited numbers of such states that the rulebook
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   144
has explicit resolution rules for, maybe /that/ should be considered
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   145
quantifiable state, too?
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   146
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   147
This is important because lumpley notes in the comments that a
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   148
distinguishing characteristic of the RPG is the fact that arrows emerge
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   149
from the fictional cloud at all; no matter how cleverly you describe
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   150
events transpiring in Settlers of Catan, none of the other players are
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   151
going to let you build an extra road segment.
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   152
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   153
So maybe the arrow from the fictional cloud should point to the
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   154
quantifiable state: sometimes the fictional cloud implies certain
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   155
discretely quantifiable states-of-the-world for which there are explicit
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   156
game-mechanical rules. That state then mandates the Hold Weapon check.
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   157
(I still don't like the idea of "mandates" being given by an arrow.)
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   158
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   159
If you go look at lumpley's
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   160
<http://www.septemberquestion.org/lumpley/anycomment.php?entry=156>, I'm
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   161
not sure what's going on there. The long arrow from the fictional cloud
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   162
to game-tokens/state is "make a Hold Weapon check"? Basically, I think
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   163
I'm not sure on where lumpley's coming down with quantifiable vs.
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   164
non-quantifiable state, so I'm trying to be explicit about this.
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   165
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   166
The other thing we can conclude is that, for this rule at least, we
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   167
might as well have folded the GM in with the players into a single icon
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   168
on the chart. The "Hold Weapon roll" rule is going to apply to any
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   169
character--whether PC (rolled by player) or NPC (rolled by GM)--and
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   170
whether they were attacked by an NPC (action chosen by GM) or PC (action
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   171
chosen by player). However, in a classic game-mastered game, the players
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   172
have limited director powers compared to the GM, so there may be other
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   173
sorts of rules where this distinction is significant. (Or perhaps more
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   174
in a meta-rules sense?)
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   175
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   176
Finally, I want to suggest that while it is true that RPGs make special
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   177
use of the fictional cloud, this is not a trivial matter. On the one
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   178
side, as suggested above, if there's a rule for it, it must be on some
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   179
level quantifiable and belong to the quantifiable area. Looking at the
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   180
flip side, it's argued that for a game like Settlers or Monopoly, the
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   181
fictional happenings can never affect the game outcome; they are purely
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   182
atmospheric. However, I carefully included a "props" element here that
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   183
is purely atmospheric /even for an RPG/.
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   184
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   185
Lest you think that this simply applies to gamers wearing silly hats,
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   186
consider that in some gaming groups, players are not rewarded
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   187
game-mechanically for talking accurately or realistically as if they
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   188
were their character (e.g. so as not to penalize members of the group
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   189
who are poor actors). Similarly, in some groups, a character with
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   190
fast-talking skill will succeed independent of that character's player's
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   191
plausible fast-talking scenario (as long as the player at least tries);
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   192
in which case any of those details are purely atmospheric.
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   193
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   194
Vincent could still conclude (fairly) that these elements are indeed
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   195
atmospheric; they are part of the fun and style of the game, but they
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   196
are not interesting from a standpoint of how the game works /qua/ game.
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   197
However, as you move away from strongly-mechanical games and you move
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   198
into more freeform narrative games, removing any notion of quantifiable
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   199
state, this gets fairly muddy. Perhaps this means quantifiable state
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   200
starts to blur into fiction state. But if that blurring and slipperiness
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   201
means it's hard to distinguishable quantifiable state from
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   202
non-quantifiable fiction state, I definitely think it's wrong to try to
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   203
clump quantifiable state with game-mechanical tools.
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   204
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   205
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   206
      Other Directions
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   207
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   208
The eight elements also offer up some opportunities to think about other
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   209
things. (A friend points out an important scenario: an arrow from Dew to
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   210
rules to GM to fiction: somebody spills soda on the GM's rulebooks, and
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   211
the GM has the character attacked and killed by magical blue lighting,
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   212
no saving throw.)
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   213
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   214
In a computer game, the computer takes over the responsibilty for
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   215
managing most (all?) interactions. However, those interactions still go
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   216
occur, simply moderated by the program. There are still quantifiable
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   217
states, mechanics for updating them (possibly randomly). There may be
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   218
fiction (human-authored, mostly), and this fiction is updated and
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   219
revealed as a consequence of the mechanics. (There is, of course,
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   220
generally never any feedback from this non-quantifiable fictional state
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   221
back into the game; it's text and cut scenes that are output-only.)
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   222
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   223
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   224
      Comments
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   225
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   226
You should probably comment back on the original thread
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   227
<http://www.septemberquestion.org/lumpley/anycomment.php?entry=156>.
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   228
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   229
------------------------------------------------------------------------
be57f0035c67 [svn] r5880@freebird: fabien | 2006-02-17 19:08:06 -0500
fabien
parents:
diff changeset
   230
home <~/index.html> : sean /at/ nothings /dot/ org